How Generative AI Could Change Shopping Forever — With Rubail Birwadker

Channel: Alex Kantrowitz

Published at: 2025-11-20

YouTube video id: zdam7ykCrl8

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdam7ykCrl8

Let's talk about whether AI will have us
all transacting within chat bots [music]
and whether your purchase data might
help AI agents give you better
recommendations. We're joined today by
Rubel Burwalker, the global head of
growth products and strategic
partnerships of Visa in a conversation
brought to you by Visa and Rubel. It's
so great to see you. Welcome.
>> Thanks for having Alex.
Okay, so let me start with this question
of conversational commerce or um you
know that's a jargon way of saying maybe
we'll just all kind of talk to the
things that to talk to chat bots and
then be able to purchase right within
them. It's been a it's been a dream of
of social media companies of messaging
companies for a long time that maybe one
day um because the messaging app will
have your context and maybe some of your
preferences that you'll prefer to shop
there versus like let's say you know a
website with a graphical user interface.
Um but some are saying that maybe
generative AI is the technology that can
finally get the industry there that can
finally get people saying you know what
chatt for instance knows me and so
therefore I'm going to ask it you know
uh what jersey should I buy or what gift
should I get and then it will go ahead
and facilitate that. Do you believe that
this is going to be the thing that
finally enables this sort of uh long
longunning tech dream to come true?
>> Uh look TLDDR
I think the answer is yes. Um, but the
long form answer to your question is
we've actually seen commerce get
intelligent
quite in a in a relatively quick
evolutionary manner over the last 15ish
or so years. And what we're seeing
that's happening with a Gentic is it's
just like what we call the next
evolution of how intelligent it could
really really get. Look, as as as
someone who's been at Visa for a very
long time, I think I I see myself as a
little bit of a historian, which is
we've seen about in the last 35 years or
so, we went from what we called
originally online commerce, which was
the original, you know, sort of like tea
leaves or e-commerce was headed and
e-commerce was all about access
because you wanted to access goods and
services and pay or get paid without
actually being in in front of a merchant
or a seller or a buyer. Then came mobile
commerce which became all about
accessibility which was you wanted to be
able to buy pay get paid while on the
move. And finally I think in the agentic
era which is like another step in what
we call intelligence in the way commerce
is going to move. It's going to be all
about autonomy and personalization which
is everything you did you can now do it
better with better data payloads with
better personalization with you know
almost a better way of identifying who
you are as a human being and what sort
of like preferences you really really
have. So I again I think the short
answer is yes. Um, and you know, the
tools that are going to get there, a lot
of those tools have been in development
for a very, very long time. And I think
now with the advent of what LLMs and
Chad GPT and a bunch of other AI
companies are doing, I actually think
yeah, it's going to get it's going to
get really, really fun.
>> Okay. So, you are a believer then in
this vision. And it sort of leads me to
a natural follow-up, which is, do the
chat bots sort of become the storefronts
of tomorrow? Are they going to be the
place where we do most of our
transacting? How does a chatbot fit into
the picture of, you know, transacting
online?
>> Uh, it's it's the the way we think about
it, Alex, is, you know, before online
commerce existed. Um, you know, you
walked into an AMC theater to buy a
movie ticket, then you decided to buy
sometimes online, then you sometimes
decided to buy it because you clicked on
an ad on a social media website through
their app. And that doesn't mean that
physical commerce went away. It just
they were like the share shifted toward
more channels in the way human beings
actually interacted with it. And we
think with the Gentic you're just going
to see another channel that's going to
be very helpful in certain types of
commerce in certain segments of
commerce. Um which doesn't mean that you
know the existing channels are going to
go away. I just think there's going to
be a good amount of migration from how
things work today to a portion of that
is going to move to Agentic. So like
that's right that's that's that's that's
the hypothesis we are working with.
>> Yeah. It's sort of like you know they we
we have these conversations okay is the
AI device going to replace the phone and
the answer is always like no it's not
but it's going to be there. It's going
to factor. Um I I wonder though in terms
of commerce it's very interesting
because um these bots you know I when I
was reporting for instance on this uh
this was 10 years ago Facebook Messenger
had this platform where they wanted I'm
sure you remember it they wanted you to
transact there and one of the things
that they always told me is if you're in
a messaging app you're effectively you
have a single source of your
conversation so they know who you are
they have your payment information
stored um with LM it's even more
advanced right it's like they know who
you are. They have your payment
information uh probably and they have a
deep understanding of your interests,
your preference, sometimes who's in your
life. So the potential there to me seems
vast.
>> Indeed. And I think what's changed from
the example you pointed correctly
pointed out is now
take all of that personalization and
context and then you add how the LLMs
and the agents interact with the outside
world and their understanding of the
outside world and then connecting those
back to your preferences which is where
you start to really really connect the
dots. So while you may have had a
payment credential stored in a messaging
app for example and you know we've seen
wallets in parts of Asia, Latin America
do this very very well. Ultimately it
was still while it was intelligent it's
still dependent on sellers like
onboarding themselves onto these
platforms to make themselves available
um to consumers with their preferences.
And I think in the new agogentic world,
I think that becomes an even easier sort
of like connection to make. So I think
what he's saying is accurate. And I
think it's going to become even more
real with how quickly we're seeing
how quickly we're seeing thisic bots
like be so useful in things that human
beings would ordinarily spend a lot of
time doing.
>> Right. explain how it becomes easier
because that's a sort of it seems
counterintuitive to me because you would
imagine that you know storefronts or
whatever still have to go through the
same process to on board is it that the
when you let's say you're using for
instance I don't know the Atlas browser
from OpenAI uh and you say book me a
plane ticket you don't really need
United to participate you know for the
for the browser to go in and and make
that deal um I'm just I'm just
spitballing here talk a little bit about
these connections.
>> Yeah. Actually in some ways in in in the
use case that you just pointed out, I
think a United becomes even more
important because I am a you know
like ardent United user. They know
exactly what I like. They know I like
the aisles isle
versus window. They know what kind of
meal preferences do I have. They have a
long amount of history on how I like to
fly. they have a very very good
understanding that typically when I'm
trying to go to say Asia I try to like
fly direct like at you know like usually
at night because then I can just sleep
and wake up and go go to the office. Now
United has an enormous amount of history
and I typically try and stick to United
although today if I'm looking for
flights to go to Asia I could have
probably have cheaper options but I
prefer to just stick as a loyal member
of United. Similarly sometimes I like
using a specific bank card that I like
that I have a lot of loyalty toward. So
that definitely matters a lot. I think
you know brands and brands knowing users
and their preferences and sometimes it's
guess money cost as a way to a role but
I also believe like you know how does a
brand feel like say you're flying
Singapore Airlines and you really like
the soft product in the way you get
treated as a customer and those things
don't really go away just because there
is a better convenience of sort of like
getting to the end answer. I almost
might sort of like restate the problem
statement which is if I am using a
agentic surface whether it's a aentic
browser or a um conversational commerce
type interface the question at least in
my in my experience and everything that
we hear from you know clients and
merchants is typically less to do with
go book me a plane ticket it almost
always starts with a much much broader
funnel of discovery which is and I'll
give you my personal example I have two
daughters they're very
and we're trying to plan to go to Hawaii
this Thanksgiving. So my question
actually start with book me tickets to
Hawaii. It's usually like, hey, I'm
trying to go to Hawaii sometimes around
sometime around Thanksgiving. What do
you recommend is a good island to go to?
What might be a good day to fly? Where
do you think I should probably stay? And
so it's starting like much much further
up funnel before I even have decided
which island to go to, which airline to
take, which day to fly. And that sort of
like leads me to doing an entire
discovery process until I sort of like
get to okay, I've decided I'm going to
fly the day before Thanksgiving and I'm
going to come back on the Sunday morning
of so we can get some sleep because I
have to go back to work the following
day. I'm going to try and go to Maui and
I'm going to try and stay at Marriott
because, you know, I'm a big Marriott
loyalty Bonvi member. And by the way, I
really like it because they have like,
you know, three extra pools which my
seven-year-old daughter will really
really enjoy going to. So payment at
this point I'm not even thinking about
making a it's not even commerce yet it's
still discovery and as I go through the
discovery journey there is going to be
an enormous amount of like you know
brand influence personalization
influence and I think the LLMs and the
agentic surfaces can actually truly make
that process so much easier. If I tried
to do this a couple of years ago, um it
would have taken me a couple of hours.
But now I think with the help of these
tools, it's made it so much easier. And
then the last mile, which is when you
when you sort of go through your
discovery process and then it gets
converted into an actual commerce is
where all the focus is is. I don't know
if that answers your question, Alex.
>> Yeah, it definitely does. And it's very
interesting for me to hear your
perspective because of course you're
coming from Visa. That's why this
conversation is interesting, right?
because you you are in active
discussions with the platforms about the
way to facilitate this in the best way.
Um and of course you I think Visa has
ways if you're if you're Visa user you
you might want uh Visa to help make this
you know make the recommendations more
personal. I'm just spitballing again but
talk a little bit about the
conversations that you're having with
the platform and how um you know Visa
might be able to enable this uh in a way
that you know we haven't seen yet.
business.
>> Yeah. I think uh look there's one thing
we pride ourselves at Visa amongst many
many things. The one thing is you know I
wake up but Alex do you have a Visa
card?
>> Of course I do.
>> Um and where you based again remind me
are you East Coast?
>> East Coast where?
>> Yeah. So you know you can in New York
you can probably you know get on a get
on a plane of three airports that are
close to you and fly to what 150 170
countries around the world. You can whip
out your Visa card and it works exactly
the same way no matter where you are and
there is some form of magic in how that
works and you feel like your money is
safe and if you didn't get the good or
the service that you paid for with your
Visa card you feel like you can call
your bank issuer for the card um you
know with the Visa guarantee and the
brand and what it represents to a user.
Now that's just true about what we try
to do regardless of which channel a Visa
card is being used whether you know you
know Alex flew to like Azarbaijan or
Colbo Sri Lanka and decided to make a
purchase or you decided to buy something
from a seller in the Philippines or you
decided to use your a mobile app and
bought you know like you bought some
stable coins or you bought a bunch of
Bitcoin. It almost doesn't matter how
you want to you how which channel and
which market you want to use. You kind
of want to use your Visa card and you
expect it to work almost exactly the
same way no matter where you are. And
there is an enormous amount of machinery
and work that goes in to make that real
because remember every market is
different. Every market has different
nuances. It has different regulation. It
has different data localization
requirements. It has different you know
things and the requirements that you
need to meet. And when we think about
agentic commerce, I think we are
enormously focused on as these new
incredibly great technology platforms
come come to come to pass and consumers
use them, we want to make sure that
their Visa card in those platforms for
any type of commerce that they want to
do works exactly the same way regardless
of what they're buying, whom they're
buying it from, and where they're buying
from. So, a lot of this is like not
super sexy stuff, but it is the stuff
that we want to make sure that works
with as little friction and as little
fraud as possible. And we spend an
enormous amount of time with these
platforms, with big tech companies, with
our acquiring community, with the
merchant community, with the issuing
community to solve those problems. And
obviously I think you asked about
personalization and we actually think
that personalization in general can be a
very very helpful barometer to even
further get to better discovery with the
right consumer consent. We are big
believers in data privacy. We are big
believers in giving consumers full
control over where their data is and
things like that. that we've introduced
things like data tokens help consumers
with better signals that they have
associated with their credentials that
you know platforms can use to provide a
better discovery process. So, so we sp
we spend a lot of time doing these
things.
>> I'm curious to hear you talk a little
bit more about what the discovery
process could look like because this
idea that, you know, we might provide
the LLM with lots of information about
us, I think we we're already there. I
mean, we probably share more with LLMs
than anything else. And we're being
honest, some of us are in love with
these things. Not me, but some people.
So, how could this discovery process uh
look as as as Visa gets involved?
>> Um, I think the simplest way to think
about it is, you know, you use your card
to do a number of things in life and a
lot of those are frankly not used at
LLMs, right? you walk down the street to
like Pete's or Starbucks coffee and you
like to stay at the Ritz Golton versus
like a Motel 6 and you typically like to
fly United versus Spirit Airlines. Now
those are just things that while your
Aentic platform surface area LLM may
have a lot of information about you,
those are just like personal preferences
tied to your long-term
spending preferences. And what we
believe is if the data is private, if it
has full consumer consent, if it is
totally tokenized and no raw data has
actually moved anywhere, but can there
be a bunch of signals that you know you
compared to like other spenders that a
agent or a company can sort of like
consume based after you've like fully
consented to it and after cons consuming
say you say I want to go to Tokyo and I
want to live in the I want to stay in
the Ginsa district in Tokyo for a week.
Um, you know, and give me hotel
recommendations. Now, knowing that you
like to stay at the Rcultton or knowing
that you generally have a propensity to
stay in like a signal that tells that
you have a propensity to actually stay
in a luxury hotel would be very helpful
for a LLM to say, oh, you know what?
Here are the options which we think
could be a lot better fit for you than a
bunch of other options that might not.
And at the same time you might like
living in host and you might like being
you know closer to the community or you
like you know some form of like a Airbnb
type share rental. And I think all those
signals really really matter to give you
a much much more richer personalized
some like recommendation. And if you get
a much more personalized recommendation
that recommendation getting converted
into a commerce transaction just
increases by a lot lot more.
for us all in the service of you know
making sure that we're making true
commerce happen.
>> Definitely. I was going to say that it
it even makes sense like let's say I'm
you know as I'm starting to use LMS more
and more for search you know I have I
say can I you find me hotel if it knows
I have a certain hotel brand I like like
you were saying um then maybe it goes
there or even as simple as like hey I'm
at this conference where can I get a cup
of coffee uh and what's open now if it
knows I'm more of a Starbucks than a
pizza person you know maybe that's where
it goes and to me that's sort of again
it's like the getting to this utility
thing of where where you want to end up
in conversational commerce where it's
easier uh than everything else. Seems to
me like that's the only way for it to
take off. That's how it gets there. To
>> totally and and and and the and the
positive of that is that it's actually
saving you an enormous amount of time,
adding more discovery searches to get to
the answer you really want. And it's
sort of like almost like solving a time
problem, a discovery problem in ways
which we think is very very positive for
the end user. Now, here's a question.
So, we've talked a lot about Agentic
stuff, uh, and we talk about Agentic,
uh, AI and what's real and what's not
and the risks and the benefits of it a
lot, uh, on this channel. And I can't
help but thinking as we talk, um, we're
obviously going to put a lot of trust
into these things. um what what is the
visa reproach going to be if um let's
say my AI agent goes out and uses my
Visa card and buys a lot of stuff for me
uh that I didn't want. You mentioned you
can trust Visa. You go anywhere, use
Visa, uh Visa's got your back. Does it
have my back if an agent goes out and
buys some stuff that I really didn't
want?
>> Um look, that's that's the fundamental
question. we spend an enormous amount of
time um fixing and thinking about and
again like I can give you a parallel
right what does that really really look
like in a e-commerce world that's not
agentic yet you know someone can't
actually take your card and actually use
it you know PII and PAN data get gets
leaked all the time you know hackers
have access to like credit card
information stuff always happens and so
everything that we design and build we
are deeply deeply focused on how do we
make the make sure that the vectors and
the surface area of fraud is as minimal
as possible. So in the visa intelligent
commerce APIs that we introduced earlier
this year and some of the work that
we're doing with our partners, we are
uber focused on ensuring that any visa
credential that is used in an agentic
environment has a high level of trust
and security associated with that. So
let me explain what that means. So if
say if you have a Chase Sapphire card
that you're using for a specific you
know aentic app on your iPhone 16.
Now if we can tie your root of identity
to that app on that device
and we can assign a token where if
someone actually tried to use it
anywhere else not like that's not you or
not in that app or not in the device
that transaction just wouldn't work. So
we actually up front are working very
very hard to create like high authentic
high authentication when a visa
credential is actually added for a
purchase transaction in the beginning
because that in itself just reduces the
amount of fraud that could potentially
occur when that happens. That's one.
Then we we working you know with the
industry about figuring out like how do
you make sure that the right biometric
authentication is captured at the time
of giving a purchase intent right just
because you have a card associated with
a aentic app doesn't mean you're
actually using it but at some point
you're like actually I want to want you
to go use this card to buy Taylor Swift
tickets for next Friday and it might ask
for like a biometric authentication of
some kind assuming you know you haven't
really used that card for a purchase
before. So like and by the way those
tend to have like very very very very
high levels of network security that we
work with the industry to ensure that
happens. And then the third thing is we
as this becomes more and more common or
will become more and more common in the
coming months and years, we've
introduced incremental data payloads on
things what we call in our APIs called
payment instructions and signals where
we actually try to match the consumer
natural language intent to the thing the
agent is going to buy before we in
before we actually release the
credential to be able what we call like
a cryptogram before the credential can
actually even be used for a visa for
like a visa transaction. So now again
those are the controls and limits we are
trying to sort of like introduce in the
payment journey to make sure that we're
trying to keep as much fraud you know
friendly fraud synthetic merchants bad
agent behavior out. We don't and again
again we're very very early days so it's
very very hard to tell what the data is
going to tell us. In some ways, we we're
going to be like mapping and looking at
this data very very closely as we've
done in the e-commerce world as we see
more and more transactions occur and
start from an agentic environment. Like
what kind of like you know behaviors are
we seeing? Are we really seeing you know
where you ask for a black bag and the
agent bought a blue bag? Are we really
seeing mistakes are going to happen at
the merchant end? Are we really going to
see some hallucination? We don't we
don't know yet but we've made we've
added the controls in place to make sure
that we can try and reduce it. And as we
learn and sort of like get more mature
and smarter about the space, you know,
we're going to evolve our product to
make sure that it actually fits the
consumer needs. It's a little bit of a
trade-off between making sure that
there's not a lot of consumer friction,
but a consumer's money is being safe is
kept safe. And we're going to hopefully
sort of like use some of this data to do
better on disputes and chargebacks and
hopefully, you know, make sure that we
are getting smarter and our community is
getting smarter. So when you actually do
call your bank and say I ordered a blue
bag and a black not a black bag and if
you have the captured data that actually
said you actually said a blue bag it'll
be a lot more easier for us and the
banks and others to adjudicate whether
the dispute was actually valid or not.
So there's like it sort of like falls
through the entire visa ecosystem that
let's make sure that we reduce the the
vector of fraud and then do the best we
can to try and use data to make better
judgment calls on like what does this
really look like and then you know tweak
our product to see how this all of this
evolves in the coming months and years.
>> How long do you think it's going to be
till you have that data?
>> Um
>> I guess that's a way of asking like how
when is this going to be real? Look, I
think we're I think you're seeing
starting to see versions of it become
real, but it's again very early days and
these tend to be like, you know, very
very specific transactions. You're
starting to see, you know, some of this
go live in you're already seeing some
form of aic transactions in different
way, shapes, and forms with like various
AI platforms. But again, it's very
early. It's like at limited merchants.
It's like, you know, in beta is largely
in the United States. I I'd say in about
6 months or so we'll start to see like
some early statistically relevant enough
data sets where we can start to like
draw conclusions. That's like my best
guess, but you know it all remains to be
seen how quickly some of these things
get adopted.
>> Okay, so 6 months I mean that's pretty
soon. So, we we will really start to see
how this stuff is going to uh look like
when it's out in people's hands, which
is which is I think, you know, it's good
news if you're counting on this to to be
a a real uh movement uh within
technology. And, you know, it's so
interesting. We um we often talk about
like, you know, you know, Assistant X
just go book my flight like it's like
the most easy thing in the world. U but
as actually hearing you talk about it,
it's a very serious technology problem.
I mean, a lot of work has to go on to m
into making sure that that is something
that actually uh can happen, especially
if it's going to use your credit card.
>> Yeah, that's totally right, Alex. And
like and it's especially important that
we get this right even though there's a
lot of hard work involved in making sure
you know the industry comes together and
does this because unlike say you know
when was Joe Peshy born, you can get the
date wrong and nothing's you know not
great. Exactly. But the money right like
you know every line of code we write
every protocol that we release every
token that we issue on every card like
just ensures that
>> you know a student's paying their fee
you know a parent is sending money home
a small business is making another sale
and we take that responsibility very
very seriously when it comes to like the
visa ecosystem
>> now there is some work on the back end
here um to make this stuff work more
seamlessly for instance uh Visa is
working on something called the trusted
agent protocol. Can you tell us a little
bit more about that?
>> Yeah, um I'm I'm happy to. So one thing
that we're starting to realize is as and
when agents have payment credentials
associated with them to make purchases
you know you're going to see some really
really good applications of that in you
know some of the things that you know
some open AAI and others have released
like ACP is a good example AP2 is
another very good example and you know
we're working with them to figure out
like how do we make sure that cards are
safe and tokenized and all of that but
ultimately you know we still we still
have to make sure that there are like
two to 300 million merchants around the
in nearly 200 markets and ultimately
agents are going to go have to transact
at them on behalf of consumers with
depending on you know you can debate how
much level of autonomy they're going to
have and we want to make sure that the
existing web infrastructure
that
that works today for e-commerce also
works for an agentic commerce world but
in order for that to happen there are
different problems that have ar arisen
now remember in the regular e-commerce
world bots Bots were not a good thing,
right? For the last 30 years, like bots
meant things. Yeah. I mean, the, you
know, the e-commerce industry have spent
a lot of time trying to keep bots out
because typically it meant that someone
was actually trying to get in and do bad
things. Now in the new world typically
bots can actually represent a good thing
which is bots can come in and you know
they can either like scrape through your
website and maybe commoditize you and do
price discovery which is not so great as
a merchant but they can also make a
purchase on behalf of a user. So how do
we make sure we differentiate in the
existing web infrastructure what's good
and what's bad. So we've done a bit of
work with a number of our partners
including you know partners like
Cloudflare that do a really really good
job at the CDN level to analyze bots and
bot traffic and what to make available
in a merchant environment like you know
pricing or product discovery or product
pages you know deploy that data to
merchants to make those decisions and
when a bot which has sort of like gone
which has a visa token associated with
it cloud can now recognize and say oh
okay so this has a intent to buy which
is great. So I can we can make that
thing available to the merchant and
merchant can actually make it accessible
to like parts of the website they do
want to access you know and you know
obviously merchants have a lot of work
to do to upgrade their infrastructure to
make it merchant readable to make it
agent readable but you know if they know
there's an intent to buy that's a
positive sign then in addition to that
if we are able to pass some form of a
consumer identifier to say oh it's
really alexgmail.com
I already have sold something to alex
alexgmail.com in the past and I know
Alex's preferences I can actually give
it a better select rate I can give it a
better product experience internally
that's helpful and if a you know
merchant can know it has some form of
like a payment credential associated
with it doesn't have to be a card it
could be any payment credential that's
very very helpful for me to know so what
we're trying to do through our trusted
agent protocol that you know we like
that the industry has adopted including
all the networks which is it's positive
in a way that it provides additional
data for end merchants
to make better decisions on can I let
this agent in? Does this agent have a
consumer identifier that's going to help
me provide a better sort like you know
product outcome to the agent to to buy?
Does this p does this agent have a
better pay like a payment credential
that I could use for a payment
experience? And we think ultimately the
world is going to you know it's going to
be you know we're going to see a lot of
like fragmentation in the near term.
We're going to see a lot of interesting
protocols and a lot of different ways
and experiences where this is going to
work. And we're going to support all of
them because we'd like to we want to
make sure everything is compatible in
the way Visa cards work with our
authenticated tokens. But I think the
trusted agent protocol just makes it
very very easy to use the existing
infrastructure the way it works with no
real work from the merchants to be able
to let agents shop on their websites. So
that's where we're very very focused on
right now.
>> Okay. So we started big picture. Let's
end big picture. One thing I like to say
about this movement or industry or
technology is there's still a lot of
ifs. I mean even Sam Alman talks about
how some of the investment might be a
little too frothy. Um we know it's it's
very useful today in some areas. Uh and
then the question is can it how will it
whe whether it will reach its potential
you know will LLM keep you know keep
scaling and will um reasoning actually
prove out as a as a valuable uh
technique that scales um is the
investment going to pay off? So let me
turn it to you and ask you uh how real
do you think this gets? Is this a a
truly transformative technology or do
you think we're like still in wait and
see mode? And if you do believe it's
transformative, what makes you confident
about that?
>> Um, it's an excellent question, Alex.
I'll tell you purely from a commerce
payments perspective, I truly do think
it'll be very very transformational. Um,
and I can say this with a lot of
confidence because, you know, we
actually do a lot of um survey sampling
with a lot with a with a lot of users
around the world. We talked to a lot of
merchants. We like and like a good
example is we recently talked about how
like four or five months ago we had seen
an increase of roughly about 1,200%.
In in aentic traffic to merchant
websites that number in itself has 4xed
in the last 5 months. So that's just
data telling us that the traffic to
websites
for merchants that are you know selling
to pay to get paid is increasing
exponentially. That's just data. Like
that's not a hypothesis. That's just
what the data is telling us. Which means
that clearly there is a
level of discovery interest that is
showing up. And ultimately the thing
that we've learned is it's all it's all
about the funnel. So you know you if
you're in a mall and the more foot
traffic you get, some of that foot
traffic is eventually going to get
converted into actual purchases. And
it's really really hard to argue with
that premise if like you're going to
have a lot of users using Agentic
platforms to look at goods and services
and things to look at and buy at at all
these merchants is eventually going to
get converted into commerce. So like
that's just what the data tells us.
Personally for my personal life like I
use I use agentic models like for like 6
7 hours a day in my daily life in almost
everything that I do and almost everyone
that I work with you know as anecdotal
as that is it is it is becoming a very
very integral part of how we do work how
we do commerce how we do discovery and
it's it's hard not to imagine a world
where some of that is truly going to get
converted into like real tangible
commerce. Now, how big and how large
would that be and how quickly that would
be? Like there's like no crystal ball
for us to know, but so far the
everything that the data tells us is is
exceeded every expectation that we had
even like a year ago for what it's
worth.
>> Rebella, if people want to learn more
about what you're up to, what Visa is up
to, or if you have any favorite podcasts
or blogs that you know, subscribe to
that you want people to check out,
anything you want to throw out there for
our viewers at the end here? Um,
well, I think this this podcast is as
good as as as as as detailed a
conversation we've had about agenda
commerce in a while. So,
>> okay, love to hear that. Okay, Revel,
thank you so much. Really appreciate you
joining.
>> Thanks, Alex.
>> All right, thanks. Thanks everybody. We
will be back on the channel with another
[music] video soon. Thank you for
watching.