Tim Cook Steps Down. And Who is John Ternus? — With Joanna Stern

Channel: Alex Kantrowitz

Published at: 2026-04-21

YouTube video id: uXOLfijQzQc

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXOLfijQzQc

Hey everyone, well, big breaking news.
We're here with Joanna Stern of The New
Things and the author of I'm new I am
not a robot and I'm going to break this
news to her right here on camera.
>> Yeah. Joanna, Tim Cook has stepped down
as the CEO of Apple and John Ternus is
going to replace him as of September
1st. Wow.
So
Wow.
>> no idea this this happened as we were
recording an episode. That episode will
come on Big Technology podcast pretty
soon, but we're just going to get this
out here now and this will be a bit of
an emergency show. Definitely.
>> minutes. Um
what do you think about the significance
of the news?
Wow, wow, wow. I'm like scared to go
look at my phone right now. Um
not I mean shocking in terms of timing.
Not shocking in terms of the choice and
that it's happening. I think we just
kind of thought this is going to be
pushed down the road a little bit. What
do you think? Um the timing I thought it
was going to happen this year. Yeah. Um
it it obviously puts Apple into this
sort of uncharted territory. Yeah.
>> Um you could have seen Tim Cook as an
extension of Steve Jobs. Uh Ternus is
pretty young. So it's definitely going
to be a brand new era for Apple and I
also I'm curious what you think about
this. He's the senior vice president of
hardware engineering. Yeah.
>> Um in an age where AI is going to really
factor a lot. Um I'm curious if someone
running hardware engineering is the
right choice for Apple. What do you
think?
I mean it's
it will be very interesting to see how
a company that has
has recently become an operation I mean
not recently since Cook took over is
really an operations company, right?
That's how he steered the company
post-Jobs.
And he left all of the other hardware
and the software stuff to his deputies,
right? He put great people into those
positions. Sometimes not as great people
as we've seen a lot of turnover.
Um and now it kind of flips back. It
goes back to someone who's very
interested in the hardware, the design,
the actual products.
Which you know
can only I think be great for Apple as
the company that makes the best tech out
there. Um the question becoming though
you know what Cook did on services, what
he did on the supply chain, what he did
in all of these other things is is the
really big question.
Here's a a letter community letter from
Tim. For the past 15 years I've started
about every morning the same way. I open
my email and I read notes I received the
day before from Apple's users all over
the world. You shared little pieces of
your lives with me and tell me things
you want me to know about how Apple has
touched you, about the moment your mom
was saved by your Apple Watch, about the
perfect selfie you captured at the
summit of a mountain that seemed
impossible to climb. You thank me for
the ways Mac has changed uh what you can
do at work and sometimes give me a hard
time because something you care about
isn't working like it should. I mean I
think that like that that beginning of
this is obviously his resignation note.
Um that beginning of the note really uh
it it sort of captures what Cook has
been so good about right good at and
what is sort of been surprising about
his ability post-Jobs is that he carried
the Apple narrative, right? I think that
you know someone coming from operations
um
moving you know taking over leadership
from someone like Jobs who was all about
the story
the real unclear thing at the beginning
of Cook's tenure was just like can this
guy keep the story going? And he did. He
really did and that sort of I mean I
you know we'll see if Ternus is able to
keep it through keep that going, but I
think that's just something we should
talk about. With Cook it's going to be
one of his biggest legacies is he he
kept Apple whether it was through his
showdown with the FBI around privacy
um the navigating like the tough
political waters that a company like
Apple does for better or worse, right?
Cuz certainly there's criticism of
how much he over-indexed on China and
you know many of the the gold bar in the
the Oval Office, but he kept the story.
That's tough and that'll be the
challenge I think moving forward. And
look he was great I look at the products
that came post him. I mean post-Jobs. I
mean there's we just we talked about
AirPods. We talk about Apple Watch. We
talk about I mean I don't think enough
credit goes to the investment in silicon
and you know whatever M chip you have in
your laptop right now was a massive
shift. I mean it like what they're now
able to do in laptops and computing
because they own that full stack. That's
a Cook thing. That was a Cook move and
like
truly changed the computing industry,
but also is like fundamentally changed
how that vertical integration has had to
happen for other computer companies.
Yep. I'll keep reading if that's all
right. He says
um
over the coming months I will be
transitioning into my new role. He's
taking the next step of his journey in
at Apple leaving my CEO job behind in
September and becoming Apple's executive
chairman. A new person will be stepping
into what I know
in my heart is the best job in the
world. That leader is John Ternus a
brilliant engineer and thinker who has
spent the past 25 years building the
Apple products that users love so much
obsessed with every detail focus on
every possible way we can make something
better, bolder, more beautiful, more
meaningful. He's the perfect person
for this job. Can I let me just share a
piece of criticism of Tim's Tim Cook's
Apple and and I'm curious if the lesson
has been learned.
And that is that like they have been so
obsessed with every detail
focus on everything every possible way
to make something better, right? The
thinning it down a little bit more
battery life and the criticism has been
that by doing that by making the iPhone
thinner and last a little longer they've
missed
like what the next trend will be. They
took a half-hearted swing at the
metaverse with Vision Pro that didn't
work out and their AI story has
obviously been bumpy. Um
any merit to that? I think merit to
that, but like you watch the markets
they they every couple years sell more
iPhones than they've sold in years past.
This strategy worked. This was
whether we want to I I think there's
always the question of who is Apple for
or who are these Apple what is Apple do?
Well, it's really who does that their
tech for, right? And their decisions
for. Is it for the consumers who want to
use this stuff or is it for Wall Street
so we can always have another product
and another product and another product.
Look, I think you'll can find two people
that say the same you can find people
that say this both, right? Like they
came out with some great products in the
last number of years. Talk about the M
chips. Like again Macs are the best
laptops you can use and
yes, it helped sell more laptops. It
helped you know Apple make more money on
that part of the business. Same goes for
iPhones. Every you know every year we
get a new iPhone. Do we need a new
iPhone every year? No, but for some
people they get a better phone and Wall
Street gets another upgrade cycle. So
you look at both of these things. Yeah.
>> And Cook I think fell in the middle
somewhere, right? Like far more than
Jobs was you know leaning probably
towards ever thinking about Wall Street
and thinking about the earnings and all
of that, but also he's kept up with some
really great products. Yeah, it's to the
market reaction and we'll have to see.
We'll we'll publish this Tuesday. This
we're recording Monday just as the news
breaks. The after-hours trading is
pretty interesting.
It it the stock dropped down bounced
right back up and then back down again.
So right now as we talk uh it's just
down uh 2.25
uh dollars. So down less than a percent.
Yeah, I think I I look I think people
were primed for this. I think I'm
shocked at the timing. I thought they'd
wait till after September.
But given that we know there's so many
products in the pipeline around
September
I guess it's not super shocking. I mean
look Ternus has been doing media tours.
He's been out there.
Um have you ever met him?
I haven't. Have you met him?
>> Yeah, yeah.
>> Talk a little bit about about this guy
then. Um
look he he's very thoughtful. He clearly
loves talking about hardware and talking
about the products. Um
you know whether it's the Neo or an
iPhone. He's he's very invested in in
the details around the products, but
also I think has a marketing bent to him
similar to you know all any any Apple
executive who is clearly focused on just
talking about what users what the
customer gets and how good it is.
But yeah, I mean he's you know he's he's
a little bit understated very
just
kind of cool guy I would say. Like it's
a also a different face for Apple I
think in in a really interesting way.
Young. Young. 51 years old.
>> Yep. Or about 50
50 51.
>> Yeah, no I think it's a very different
face for Apple. So he's going to be the
be the leader for
next bunch of years.
Most likely. The board likes him.
Yes.
>> [laughter]
>> Um
it is interesting how
uh it kind of leaked. It's like The one
one of the
>> was him. that it was going to be him.
For a while an Apple tried to deny it,
but uh the one thing that's been
interesting under Cook recently
is that Apple's been very leaky. I mean
it went from a company that never leaked
to like a company where like you kind of
knew what was coming all the time.
Um
I'm curious, do you think that signals
like some internal like discontent
around Cook or did it just become too
old and big to contain the leaks and it
became more of like a normal company?
Well, it's it's still very the secrecy
of Apple and when you speak to certain
employees it's still very ingrained.
It's very ingrained in some of them.
As a reporter I don't know if you've
ever had this, but like sometimes I'll
reach out you know I'll hear I'll reach
out to Apple employees via LinkedIn and
immediately I get a phone call from
Apple PR because employees really can
take it extremely seriously. Like Like
report me. They're like reporting me
into Apple PR. It's like, "Okay, like
I'm just doing my job. I'm not getting
in trouble with Apple PR."
Um
but look, I think a lot of the leaks
have also come from the supply chain. I
think the more they've diversified,
that's part of where this is coming
from. Some of it's marketing. Like you
can tell that somebody clearly had some
access to some version of I don't know
whether it was some deck or some
presentation that was coming.
Um
but I don't know. In this day and age
also like is it that bad, right? It
builds hype for your products. People
are excited. Everyone's talking about
this iPhone fold that's going to come
out in September, right? Like better
that than there just be this complete
surprise and people be like, "Eh, okay."
You know.
>> Yep.
Timing-wise, why why why do you think
they Why did you think they were going
to wait? Just to let WWDC go on without
Tim Cook? It's kind of like a basketball
player taking his like, you know, last
last season.
>> But I guess he kind of just took it with
this Apple 50th. Yep.
It's kind of like the perfect time for
him to step down because, like we said,
Apple's a $4 trillion company.
We don't know what AI is going to do to
them. Right.
So, you don't want to be the guy who
like it doesn't I mean, this might be
too critical on Apple, but it doesn't
seem like they have answers on AI. And
you kind of don't want to be the guy who
just like
presided over that. It's probably better
to take Let somebody else take it. Yeah,
but also I think if you look at Cook,
he's getting old. Yeah. You know, not
too old. Like I you know, I don't I
think he clearly can still be a part of
the company, but
>> 65 65 been and then this administration,
like all the stuff he's dealt with I I
think the guy is just like, "Eh, I'm
done with this."
He certainly has has enough money. Um
Yeah. Yeah. Uh what do you think What do
you look forward to under Ternus at
Apple?
Um
Cook's worth that just according to
report I just pulled up, $3 billion.
That's enough, I think. Yeah, I think
he'll be fine.
Um
>> [laughter]
>> I think so, too.
Um
I do look forward to Look, I I go to all
Apple events. Uh I look forward to some
more energy in those events now. I mean,
I don't know if they'll bring him back
on to the actual stage, but he's he's
got presence and um
if you're want a leader to be on stage
that's really interested in the hardware
and getting really geeky and
nerding out on certain stuff, it that
could be him. Um
I think yeah, I think the energy around
the projects. And I I look, I I I you
know, their pipeline they've got stuff
that they've already been working on. I
don't think we're going to see sudden
change, but well, I I would like we
could come back here in 3 years and I
think have a better sense of what what
he really did. Yeah. Fold, that should
be a big product.
>> I like yeah, I think that's going to be
a big product, but I think similar to a
Vision Pro, it's going to be
probably priced out of, you know, the
mainstream and um take a few iterations
to get pretty good. All right, before we
get out of here, what is what is Tim
Cook's legacy?
So, I love the I think the chips are a
big thing that he did. I I keep
mentioning that. Um
cuz it's like when you think about the
biggest thing I mean, look
I don't know. There's so many things.
There's like two main things that I
think I come up with. One, building
around the iPhone. Taking that moat and
just building so much around it.
AirPods, Apple Watch,
just extending that ecosystem to so many
things. And then I think the operations
and becoming a company that just could
ship so many products at such good
premium
quality and you know, even look at what
they just did with the Neo. I mean, like
you know, what they do on the operations
side, I think. So, I think those two
things. Like what he's done with the
ecosystem. I mean, I think we could do a
tally of how many times Tim Cook said
hardware, software, and services at
events. It's probably it's certainly,
you know,
If you had to drink for each one, you'd
be pretty drunk.
>> Yeah. It's definitely [laughter] older
than hit more than his age. Um but like,
you know, that he made that a mantra and
like that clearly moved markets and
moved products for them. And then the
operations side. What would you say? I
mean, I would say he is he gets
certainly gets credit for keeping Apple
relevant by not chasing all the new
things. Yep. Um
but there's another side of that. He
also will I mean, if they don't figure
out AI Yeah. and AI gets as big as a lot
of people think it will be,
then he will be seen as the person who
was so myopically focused on what they
did well that he failed to create a
culture cuz we know the culture is not
ready to build AI. Uh failed to to
create a culture that could that could
do this in-house. And then I think
that's evidenced by the fact that they
have to partner with Gemini. There's a
chance they're going to make this work
perfectly where like they didn't spend
all this money building data centers and
they license a model and it works in
their product. Yep. Uh but the other
side of that story is also alive and he
will have his hand off the controls as
it plays out. Yeah. Yeah.
No, it's been Tim Cook's Apple, you
know, or Tim Apple. It's been Tim Apple.
That was J- John Apple? Doesn't have the
same ring as Turnus Apple.
Apple Turnusover? Oh god. I'm going to
>> Oh, that's a good headline. [laughter]
Joanna, thank you. I am not a robot.
It's a book that you should definitely
pick up. Got to get that in there.
>> Can I just see my phone now? Like can I
just leave?
>> right. All right, everybody. We'll see
you next time. Thank you again for
listening and watching. We'll see you
then.
Okay. Gracie [clears throat] times.