Brian Stelter on CNN v. Joe Rogan

Channel: Alex Kantrowitz

Published at: 2023-02-01

YouTube video id: l_zYWJbCGQ0

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_zYWJbCGQ0

it is it's an interesting challenge why
don't we talk about a little bit I mean
so we just talked about CNN's ratings
under 450 000 viewers and then the
average Joe Rogan episode gets 11
million downloads at least accordingly
we can't do apples and bananas like that
well yeah but okay so but since you
since you're the media critic I'm kind
of curious like what why don't you talk
it through
I'll talk you through this way I would
say CNN uh CNN the way that I look at
ratings for CNN MSNBC earth box is not
the hourly rating but the cumulative
rating how many tens of millions of
people are watching on any given day
week or month and that number to me is
is an important one it's not about any
individual show it's about experience
with the brand and with CNN getting tens
of millions of viewers a month I think
that's a healthy place to be and that's
I think a fairer comp to Joe Rogan where
you know Rogan obviously has a big fan
base
um but if you were to look at his how
many people were listening to him this
hour it wouldn't be nearly even before
that would be you know so that to me is
you know what's the weekly or monthly
cume now that Cube just decline again it
goes back to the Boo in the ocean the
monthly audience declines there's less
less going on it rises when there's more
going on but overall you still have
people I think vast majorities of
Americans who know that you Reuters an
Associated Press and uh Yahoo and CNN on
NBC are out there Gathering the raw
materials for everyone else to talk
about now I I also think we have to
inject into that uh the recognition of
hyper partisan landscape right that that
there is a right-wing media universe
that's almost entirely separate from the
what people usually call Mainstream
which I think is is not right word to
use because it's been uh turned into uh
it's it's the word mainstream has become
a derogatory word you know among a lot
of folks so
um uh there's this right-weight media
Universe almost entirely separate uh
creates its own uh story lines and stuff
out there and then there is actually a
left-wing media Universe uh it's not
nearly as big but it's actually
left-wing media that pushes a liberal or
Democratic agenda
um and that exists as well so so you
have these different con within that
constellation you have all these
different uh sources here's where I come
down Alex people are overwhelmed they
are confused they don't know where to go
what to believe what to trust who to
watch and that I think is a situation
that's only accelerating
um and so that leads me as a to think
about technology and think about startup
world what can be created to help people
navigate through information saturation
we know it's only going to get thicker
and more saturated we know it's only
going to get crazier with the amount of
content produced by robots that appears
to be from humans we know it's only
going to get more saturated and so what
should we be making and how can we be
helping people get through it and how
can we help people figure out how to
navigate it that to me is a fascinating
thing so let's go a little bit deeper
onto this because okay maybe instead of
saying it's CNN and it's Joe Rogan it is
you know the mainstream news and the
people who are investing in news
Gathering right paying reporters to
gather news
and then you have you have Rogan you
have the right wing podcast you have the
left wing podcast you have the YouTubers
you have the activity on Tick Tock and
in a lot of these areas it seems like
people would much rather go to a Rogan
than to a mainstream Network why do you
think that is
to the extent that I buy the premise I
think it's because people already know
the headlines or they think they know
the headlines and they don't feel like
they need more of that raw material
um now you know I love reading a
magazine cover story in print I'm
old-fashioned I I you know I I want more
of that you know like raw material news
Gathering um you know interpretation but
but I think that there is clearly a
sense that you've seen it all on your
phone you know what's going on you think
about the way that you know I I like to
think about my brothers instead of you
know back when I was at CNN I think how
do my brothers consume the news right
they want to know is anything going to
affect their commute is anything
happening in the world that's so
interesting or so crazy or so scary they
need to pay attention and if not great
leave me alone and in that case it's
more fun to go and listen to a podcast
or watch a football game than to engage
in the news
I think the news industry and and I I'm
a part I was a part of this problem that
I'm about to identify uh I often would
start my stories in the middle instead
of starting my story at the beginning uh
what that means is a story or a TV
segment kind of assumed you already knew
uh what I was talking about before it
started uh rather than starting at the
beginning of the story and a lot a lot
of news materials created that way where
the story is in the middle so I I think
there's so much space for Innovation and
creativity and new you know new ways of
of telling the news that might appeal to
people who right now don't feel like
they need it or don't feel like it's for
them and they end up listening to a cool
podcast instead yeah and the the fact
that we have technology now it enables
that sort of
explosion of different content in a way
that sort of you yeah it you used to
only have the meat like the media to
tell you what was going on and now you
can put a pair of headphones in your
ears now everybody and there's so many
different sources and sort of how
everybody
yeah every single person's a member of
the media most of us are creating
content at the same time we are
consuming content and that's you know
the fundamental power Dynamic shift that
that all these companies all these
entrenched companies have to Grapple
with
um and that's true I think an
entertainment to some degree as well as
in news
um you know I I you know the problem
that I see across news and entertainment
is a discovery problem
um I I know that there are so many shows
on Netflix that I should watch and I
would enjoy and it is still hard to
discover them you can Crow you know you
can Rave about the algorithm and Netflix
has done a lot right and I think right
now it's still underpriced I think
there's so much growth but I I uh I look
at Netflix and I think it's still we're
still in the early days of getting to
getting to this solving the discovery
problem and not just for me but for my
mom I was at my mom's house last week
and she still did not know and I don't
mean this to rag on my mom okay she
still barely knew knew how to use
Netflix on Roku and she didn't have her
own profile she was still using mine now
I know in a few months we'll have to
stop sharing passwords and she'll have
to pay up but she will be happy to pay
when she has a fully built out profile
when she knows how to actually navigate
it I think we sometimes underestimate
this stuff ain't easy you know his stuff
is not always easy I know it's easy for
my five-year-old on her iPad but it's
not easy for a lot of the rest of us and
so I see a lot of potential there both
in news and entertainment to try to to
make a technology work for us rather
than the other way around
so do you think at times the the
mainstream media can help play into what
this the alternative sources are trying
to do I mean a lot of ways that they get
an audience is they sell themselves
against what you're seeing on the CNN
for instance and you know I called a
friend who's you know he's not a media
personality but kind of interested in in
all these worlds and he immediately
pointed to like the uh invermectin thing
where CNN said that Rogan was on uh or
suggested that he was using a medicine
that was a horse tranquilizer where it
was prescribed by his doctor and I'm
curious if that you know there's a bar
that the mainstream needs to hit that's
so high when you're saying okay you can
come to us for like the primary source
reporting that if you don't hit it then
you can sort of
you can push people to other directions
what do you think about that
I think if you're gonna expect so
I think the nature of news is oh by the
way all this is going to sound like
defense when it's actually true
okay again it's good to hear what you
have to say if you expect you know you
have to recognize that the news coverage
is iterative iterative it evolves that a
stories evolve that so much of what
happens on television news is fleeting
and ephemeral and a clip that made total
sense three years ago might make no
sense now you know when stripped of all
context and by the way I think that's
something that happens to Fox News as
well it's not just I'm not just saying
it happens on one team or another one
side or One Tribe you know uh when when
stripped of context things take on
different meanings so uh news is
iterative stories change science evolves
studies evolve more we learn more we
should want to you know we should want
it to work that way it's the right way
all that said
I feel like sometimes there are grifters
who will go out and they will place a
hundred bets okay and then 10 of their
bets will turn out to pay out and they
will go and they will celebrate those 10
and delete the 90. and pretend like the
other 90 didn't happen and pretend like
they were right 100 of the time when
they were only right 10 of the time that
is not journalism that's not that's not
uh responsible a media production that's
grifting and yet we see a lot
of that
um in in the disinformation world uh
well let me just back up this
information is not quite the right word
for that disinformation is is much more
I think malicious but I think we see a
lot of this attempt to say we're I'm uh
and I'm I can't think of like a exact
name of a person you know I don't want
to call that one person on this but I
think we see a lot of it
they say I'm an alternative to the
mainstream which always gets it wrong
well
they get it wrong a lot too it's just
that they bury their their their their
their errors or their whatever and
they're not investing in the raw
material journalism out there Gathering
facts uh you know it's easy to point to
the local news crisis in this country
it's easy because it's true we have a
local news crisis we have a lack of
reporting on the ground but those people
who are actually Gathering material on
news on the ground uh they're the ones
we should celebrate not we shouldn't we
shouldn't point out when they screw up
one out of 100 times and then condemn
them for eternity we should try to help
make their work better and stronger you
know rather than be destructive which I
think is where we we see a lot of middle
Christians from the right that's focused
on trying to destroy media we should be
constructive uh we just try to make it
better and there are great conservative
media creators like Jim Garrity and
others who do that who say sell it you
know try to encourage the media the
whatever you think of as the media
because the media is everything to
different people uh to make it better
and and not try to tear it down
um and I I guess this sounds like crazy
defense but uh but that's where that's
like that's the way that I see this
environment where
um you have you have these folks trying
to claim uh that they they knew all you
know I don't know the code stuff you
could spend right you know where it
seems like some people want to live in
2020 forever
there are some people who uh you know
uh
there are some people who want to live
with 2020 forever and never embrace the
fact that it's 2023 and that's probably
all I should say about that totally and
you know it's interesting because it is
news is iterative and I think what folks
would want is like news to be more open
when they do get things wrong and you
know I kind of I guess there was never a
real walk back or a never like a real
like hey this person wasn't on horse
tranquilizer it was a human medicine and
I kind of I mean maybe I missed it so
that's kind of cool
it's a fair point in two ways number one
I am sure that there was that follow-up
and I am sure that most people missed it
like I you know how could you possibly
in this saturated information
environment let's let's just for fun do
a hypothetical
um let's say CBS News air to report uh
to 10 million people that uh had several
mistakes let's say they ran correct