Amazon's Panos Panay: The Reality of Building Alexa Plus and AI Assistants

Channel: Alex Kantrowitz

Published at: 2025-10-23

YouTube video id: jaoQRJ3Hplo

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaoQRJ3Hplo

Where is Alexa Plus and how is the
battle to bring you a personalized AI
assistant shaping up? We'll talk about
it with Amazon's head of devices and
services right after this.
Welcome to Big Technology Podcast, a
show for cool-headed and nuanced
conversation of the tech world and
beyond. We're joined today by Panos
Panay, the head of devices and services
at Amazon, who is here in studio with us
to talk about the state of Alexa Plus,
where the battle of AI assistants is
heading, and plenty more. It's great to
see you, Panos. Welcome back to the
show.
>> Thanks, man. It's great to see you, too.
So, we spoke last
in the spring.
>> yeah, March.
>> March, when you just had your March
event. And the promise at that event was
within a month we were going to see
Alexa Plus. Yeah.
What is the state of the rollout?
Because we've had folks who have
listened to that episode uh on this show
who have said,
"I'm waiting." All right, send me send
me a note. If you're listening, send me
a note.
>> they send it to? Where do they send it
to? All right, I can't I've got to be
careful giving out my email. I think you
might get me
get me going. I'll I'll give it to you,
you give it to them. You can write to
bigtechnologypodcast@gmail.com
and I will forward it. Do it.
And anyone who wants access we're giving
access over 10 million people
uh have access right now. But, you know,
that's out of what's been reported to be
500 or so million devices.
>> Large numbers, very large numbers. Yeah,
so yeah, the first 10 million but it's a
rollout. So, we call it early access. Uh
it's been pretty extraordinary. Like the
people that use it, it's been fun to
watch um getting the feedback both ways.
Like, you know, where it can be better
but also just the energy around the
usage, how it's being used, has been
pretty
it's been pretty remarkable.
Um and you know, you kind of learn you
think about Alexa we we're rolling it
out slowly for
uh
I think for reasons that we just have to
make sure our current customer base you
you never want to abandon your current
customer base, you just can't. And while
it will work on 97% of devices out there
right now in people's homes, we still
want to do it in a way where when we're
when we switch people over because they
choose to that they feel great about it
and so it's right now because early
access is hey, ask for it, we'll give it
to you.
It's that simple.
Um
end of October though, just so you know
where it's at, we're going to be rolling
it out to everybody.
Um if you buy a new Echo device we
launched four new Echo devices
yesterday. We're pretty pumped about it.
Or I'm pretty pumped about it, maybe. Uh
but all those folks will get it right
out of the box. Okay, so end of October.
Yeah.
>> This show will air right around then. Um
everybody will get Alexa Plus if your
device is compatible or if you buy a new
device.
>> Yeah, you'll you'll opt in if you want
it. Like, I'm not going to we're not
going to just give it to anyone because,
you know, people love their classic
Alexa and and we want to just serve our
customers like the way they want to be
served. But I think everybody should get
it. Is is the So, I think
it's good that everyone's going to get
it. Yeah. I or have the option to. Yeah.
I want to ask about this sort of gap in
time because we we watched the live demo
on stage
in March. And then the the notion was it
was going to come out the next month.
>> Yeah. Um and I read that at least as
everybody was going to get it in in a
month, not a small section of of people.
And
has was there a difficulty in getting
the technology to work that led to that
delay? Or was it you saying we just need
to test a little bit more? What
happened?
Well, it the way what we had done in
we had asked for if you wanted to get
it,
you know,
email me when ready type of thing, like
create a list and we're going to give
access to customers they go.
Um
and then as the product continued to
develop and finish, it was then rolling
it out slowly to make sure because you
have to learn that all environments are
so different. And so the whole concept
and construct was learn as we release.
And so we had basically tranches of
customers that you release to that were
on this list. And we got it to everybody
who's asked for it at that point. Um
and then that list continued to grow and
then we continued to release it. But it
really was about, yeah, making sure the
product was refined to a point that when
we did put it in people's homes that
they were both excited about it but then
can use it for everything that they're
already using it for. There's some
nuance on how you would use it and
you're kind of learning to use the new
Alexa, not complicated, just nuanced. Um
and so it was just a little bit more
methodical.
Um I would say
uh we rolled it out as we intended but
also it it did feel a little bit slower
than I think what people expected. So,
maybe it was about um how to balance the
expectation versus
what we delivered.
I was listening back to our conversation
from March and a topic came up and I was
like, "Wow, I can't believe I didn't ask
a follow-up on that."
>> Oh, no.
>> And you've already brought it up now.
>> Oh, no.
>> Which is that you have to think about
And then I came back for more. You're
back for more. I'm so By the way, I have
to
say
No, it's great that you're here.
Sometimes there's some people would
probably think don't do it. Don't do it.
No, but we should say it's great that
you're here. For many years we didn't
hear from Amazon executives in the way
that you're having a conversation today,
so I'm thrilled that you're here and I'm
thrilled we're able to talk about it.
Cool.
This is not this is not And you've been
doing this 5 years. 5 years. Doing this
5 years we just celebrated our 5-year
anniversary
>> rad. I mean, and I think that's cool. 5
years in. I'm sorry I couldn't make it
last night but that's a very cool thing.
>> a nice party and but but I was also I
mean, I was covering Amazon long before
that as as a reporter and wrote this
book called Always Day One. And this is
why I was upset that I didn't follow up.
And it's not a gotcha. It's actually I
want to learn a little bit about your
product philosophy. Okay.
Always Day One is something Jeff Bezos
popularized within Amazon. To me it
always meant
you build as if you're a startup. And
the nice thing about being a startup is
you don't have a flagship product to
maintain. And I think the message from
Bezos, if I read it right, was a lot of
big companies spend their entire
existence trying to maintain their
flagship product and they don't build
for what the market needs at that
moment. And that's the nice thing about
being a company on day one,
you just build what the market needs.
>> from zero, of course.
>> You can start from zero. Yeah. And so
that sort of brings us into this
conversation of how you approach the uh
the Alexa customer. Uh You said in our
last conversation and just now, you have
to be careful about the way that the
current customers are using the product
when you're introducing something new.
Yeah. And there's that leadership
principle within Amazon, customer
obsession. You obsess about what what
the customer
>> Yeah. And that's where that comes from.
And then there's that balance between
>> And believe me, by the way, if you don't
if you don't do that,
>> Mhm. um
the
the you just
you lose trust.
Right. But then lose trust with the
customer, you lose it overnight, Alex.
Like at a level that
they don't come back.
You know, they didn't if they didn't ask
for it and even if they did and you
didn't give them what they wanted, you
lose trust and that's such a big deal.
Right. And if you're going to be
obsessed, but go ahead. I This there's a
dichotomy here, I got it. I think you
see where I'm going because this is like
a core question about Amazon in the age
of AI. Is can you hold that customer
obsession,
people who love your current flagship
product, and that Always Day One value
together and have them work in sync? You
can. You you absolutely can. You but,
you know,
one of the most incredible parts of
Amazon is there's a level of patience to
construct like where are we headed.
And um
a lot of time invention takes time. It
doesn't mean you're not being
relentless. It doesn't mean you're not
acting as if it's day one. Like with
Alexa Plus we are being relentless.
If you just look at the breadth of what
it can do, with the amount of APIs it
can call, with the amount of experts
that are embedded, the fact that you can
be full conversational assistant and
call them, this is this this takes time.
And you know, when you have hundreds of
millions of customers, the things that
they do, the things that they connect
with. I think we talked about this last
time. I don't necessarily want to get
into that, but I
I think you can still be relentless and
you can still act as if it's day one and
never never
um dismiss or not put your customer
first. It's very real.
And I think that's what we're doing
right now. And we don't act So, when
we're building, when we're creating,
uh when we're focused on the product
that we're just getting after, it is
relentless. Like we are going as if
we're not like year three, slow down,
where is the or year five or year 10,
where is the customer at? Let's just
look at the data. None of that's
happening. Right now it's full speed.
What does the customer need? Are we sure
we know what the vision is? Are we
locked in? And then the team pushes.
Like we're really clear where we need to
go.
Then there's the commitment to the
current customer. But by the way, you're
also relentless about that.
And this is one where you know, I see
that dichotomy like, well, you have to
serve your customer. That doesn't mean
it's not day one. It just means you
every day you wake up worried, thinking,
understanding, learning about the
customer but then acting acting uh with,
you know, the same passion
uh and relentless focus you need to move
the ball. And
uh I see that happening on Alexa right
now.
But okay, so let's go one level deeper.
And I could be wrong about this uh but
I'll give you my read of what Bezos was
saying with with Always Day One. And
since you're in the company, you can
help me get to the truth. Um
I don't know. I mean, you know, this
this will be tricky. I'm not sure I can
get in the minds of of everybody but
I'll do my best.
>> to me the message So, I came in when I
came into my reporting, I wrote a book
book title Always Day One. I came in
thinking that Day One mentality meant
that you just kind of work 24/7 and you
have that relentlessness. And after
spending time reporting on the culture
of the company, my perspective shifted a
little bit and it was a message to me it
really meant it was a message to the
company
don't worry about what got you here at
this point.
>> Yeah. Flip when you need to. And one
example is
amazon.com which was this first-party
marketplace flipped effectively to a
majority third-party marketplace which
you know caused real disruption with the
first-party vendors who were used to you
know working with a certain system and
now found internal competition. Now for
the customer on the customer side you
you never really realized saw that
disruption because it was all taking
place effectively on the back end. But
with AI it's different because you know
if you have a system where you're like
all right like it doesn't matter what
got us here let's let's build what the
market needs the customer can feel that
disruption. Yeah. I I think they can for
sure and there's that's where the
patience comes in but I still even as as
you say it I I go but the mentality
remains this relentless day one.
You know for the first think about it
with activating the first 10 million
customers it it's a switch. It's not we
literally build go
take it move um and
and that engagement happens we learn as
fast as we can and then we're continuing
to iterate. So I feel like that the
spirit of it remains and
but I don't think you ever abandon your
customer.
I don't think that would ever happen.
um if you're acting in in a kind of day
one mindset you're serving the customer.
Right. And so the change is okay. Your
example I wasn't there for the
transition and but I will say let's just
use Alexa as an example. Right now you
know we we are building on the spirit of
like when they're ready go.
And they meaning the customer when they
want it. You know day one is about
building creating knowing where you're
headed starting from zero making it
great and then you know part of that is
um bring your your customer along. It
has to be you can't you just never leave
them behind but to your point I think
your example might be perfect. I'm sure
there's a team that was going full
speed. I don't know the details so I
can't I got to be I just got to be
careful I never want to be presumptuous
but now you end up in this place where
it serves the customer then serve them.
And
I think that's what happened.
Again I wasn't that close to it but when
you think about Alexa the same thing's
happening right now. I'm not even trying
to obfuscate. I mean as you say it I'm
like I think that's exactly where we
are.
And I'll say that humbly because I
always worry like oh I'm overstating it
or I'm like you know I get I take so
much like Alexa should be this much
better and it should have been done you
know you should have known this
and you're like okay.
We have a team that's pretty passionate
they know what they're getting after.
But I'll never leave I we just we just
won't leave the customer behind. I just
won't do it. Yeah I think it's one of
these things that's happening with a
variety of big tech companies today
which see the promise of generative AI
see the bumps of generative AI and are
deciding how quickly to bring it forward
in their products um without
alienating those who love their flagship
products. Like we had the people who
were running search at Google in here a
couple weeks ago a couple months ago and
it's that balance of like you have this
great traditional search product people
use a lot of people use it every day and
then when do you decide to flip it and
make it AI mode? And I think it's very
interesting to see
all these companies going through this
moment of when is it time to flip that
switch to generative AI because like you
mentioned you mentioned when we spoke
last a startup can do it quicker because
they don't have to worry about their
current customers. Yeah and I think you
can it doesn't mean they build it
quicker it just they don't you know you
start from zero and you build up. You
know versus starting from hundreds of
millions and and handing it over. I
think that's just reality. That but it
doesn't mean we're not fast or not
that's where I I take exception to like
when I hear it. I flip your perspective
on it. Like what's taking you so long?
Like wait hold on. Like Yep.
>> There's not there's no other agent out
there or kind of assistant that's um
using you know
tens and tens 70 100 I won't give you
the amount of experts but those experts
also all of them looking across calling
hundreds and hundreds of APIs and being
able to serve. There's no other expert
out there that I can send
my daughters you know she's 15 man she's
amazing and she's
she's trying she's learning she's
playing on the golf team at school which
is kind of a weird thing she's just
and I just wanted to see like I want to
get to a match. Mhm. And so she sent me
a picture of
uh her schedule.
It was a picture you know. And she's
like can you come? um
I'm like yep so I take a I take the
picture I just share it with Alexa.
All right in that moment
uh Alexa sends me a notification I open
the app the app says do you want me to
download everything here or do you want
me to add everything to your calendar or
do you just want some of these things
and in the future it's a very smart it's
just a it's a gen ticket and it's like
do you want me in the future do you want
me to add them all or do you want me to
ask you again?
I said just in the future add them all
thank you add everything. My calendar
populates
with the location the name of the school
they're playing against
a link to directions and you know
basically the calendar entry and then
comes back and says here's a few
conflicts just so you're aware maybe you
want to resolve them and here's what I
suggest. Okay what just happened? It
seems simple right? Not to me. You added
a calendar event. No I added I gave it a
picture.
And now of course it can read the
picture and but in most cases it just
spits out here's the summary. That's not
what it does it here's the summary and
then went and took action.
And then updated the calendar and then
Mary my wife got the updates on her
calendar and so now all of a sudden I
think for the first time in like our
kids high school career we actually have
we actually have the kids like sports
calendar on our personal calendars
because it's always so hard you know
it's like over here over here over there
you have to manually enter it nobody's
going to do that.
>> Yeah. Yeah it's like doesn't happen and
then it's there's just like an argument
it's Monday like are you going to go see
this is this on Thursday? I'm like I
didn't even know it existed like why
didn't you tell me? Like well you don't
you remember the mail you know you're
like in this place but now it's all
solved like that. But what happened
there was an expert the calendar expert
there was a communications expert there
was a understanding the document expert
then there was APIs called where you're
turning on
calendar entries then checking against
old calendar entries and then updating
other and when you start seeing that all
happen
yeah that's pretty it's it's incredible
work but I look at it and go no it's
just not happening anywhere else. Not
yet.
It's not a simple piece but it's so
delightful when it does happen you know
and back to your original point like
that is a
that's a great feat of engineering at
speed um and just kind of product making
that that we're pretty proud of and then
you start seeing it and when we say like
being day one like there's nothing that
holds that back. Right. There's just
nothing. You're starting from zero to
create that.
um and you and you and then that's when
you're serving a customer and that's an
added value to something they they
didn't have before. Uh you shared some
>> can't get anywhere else.
>> Right you shared some stats about
those that do have Alexa plus using it
much more often.
>> Yeah. Three what is it? Can you talk
about
>> I mean I like yeah I have it written
down somewhere. Yeah you can get access.
>> shopping three and a half times five
times more recipes.
>> You do have it written down yeah. Ten
more music actually. um what's happening
is they're using the products and right
when you start realizing it's agentic
capabilities go far beyond just
answering questions.
uh
People engage it once you engage it once
or twice the usage spikes.
And
um and that's one of the challenges you
know this is ambient AI it's working
there it's in the background it's right
there. How do you address it? When do
you address it? How do you get something
out of it? How do you learn what it's
capable of? Those are all challenges but
um once customer engages it it's pretty
it's pretty awesome to see it just
simplifies life and that we're starting
to see that happen in the product. Uh
you have this belief that with a product
you really have to have this central
thing this one thing within a product
that you go after.
>> Yeah that's true. How do you know that?
Did we talk about that last time?
You're right. I I you got your sources.
I call it the one thing.
>> One thing.
>> Yeah. Is that AI does everything? So
what is the one thing with AI?
>> Well every expert has their one thing it
has to do great. But then you have a
product that does is a catch all.
>> a it's a tricky one right? Like it it it
I don't know if it's a catch all but it
is it's supposed to be the world's best
personal assistant like that's the one
thing it does at all times like it is it
going to do that and if and if the
expert that's delivering against it has
to do its part then you can you can step
back and look at it. It's like anything
I've built plenty of products that were
platform level products in my past and
um
it's never as you know it's what I try
and do with teams philosophically in
product making is let's focus on the one
thing that your team these are big teams
and and big you know uh different levels
within a product but you can break that
down and compartmentalize and say all
right what's the one thing what's the
one thing as long as the vision is clear
on where you're headed and that one
vision is clear then teams can really
rally on what they want to go
accomplish for the customer and that
that does keep you in the day one
mentality cuz it's super clear like
here's what we're going to deliver. By
the way that might mean there's
trade-offs in other places and by the
way it may not be perfect for everybody
that's okay that's always okay. Like if
you if everybody was if every single
person was happy with what you built I
promise you you didn't push it far
enough. I promise you you just did not.
But if everybody's pissed at you you
definitely pushed it too far you know
and so you're
and so you have to find a little bit of
that balance, but the truth is if you're
going to push it um to the right level
of innovation and invention and if that
one thing, you just have to get that
right and then majority of customers,
they'll just be delighted. And then if
you push it a little bit further, that's
okay. Maybe not everybody comes on
board, but I but uh that teams tend to
find a balance.
I want to go back to this catch-all
nature of AI and the difficulty in
building it. So, I'll just talk to you
about the perspective from the outside
and it would be great to hear your
perspective from the inside. From the
outside, those of us who watch this
space see great potential, I think.
Yeah. We've seen visions from Google,
from uh
from Apple, from Amazon about this
uh catch-all uh or
or um I don't know. This is always
there, contextually aware, helpful,
personal assistant. The thing that I've
heard uh
is difficult on when you want to build
something like that is when you're
working with a large language model,
they can only handle a certain amount of
context before they just kind of lose
their minds. Yeah. And when you're
trying to integrate calendar and photos
and I don't know, maybe Ring camera
data, uh There's so much. I can't I
can't tell you. Like we These are just
simple high-level, but there's so much.
>> Is there a technical wall that you
eventually hit when you try to integrate
with that within an LLM?
Well, the there's not a I don't
Is there a technical wall?
The The way to think about it is you can
If you're wrong, it's devastating.
Right.
Do you know? And that's why So, your
original question is why isn't it going
faster? Well, well, for sure what I'm
not going to do
is when you decide to
turn off a light, lock your door.
That would be bad. Right. And so that
that's a That's a That's a microcosm of
what you just asked.
>> Right. Um I don't think there's a
technical wall, but is there enough
training and learning that you have to
do and understanding? Does your
architecture have to be set up in a way
where it does know and rechecks and
triple-checks that it's calling the API,
but still but still hold the latency
that customers come to expect because
nobody's sitting there going, "I think
this is a hard problem. It's going to
take a while." I have 30 seconds to get
my light on while
>> going to happen. You know, once it's
easier to go touch the light switch,
you just go touch the light switch. And
so, like it it's inherently true of
product making. We always as our
customers, we always have to think
they're going to take the easiest path
to get to their solution. Like that's
it. We're because we are efficient in
our nature. Like we want to Some other
other people call it lazy, but you could
pick. Like but we want to get to the
solution as fast as we possibly can as
people on almost anything you do. Of
course.
And or maybe not fast. How about
easiest?
And then you start realizing that time
is part of easy. Like if you need it
quick, you want it quick. Even though it
might be easier to say it versus touch
it.
And so we'll look for that path at all
times. And so,
on our products, I don't think there's a
there's not a limitation
at all. Mhm.
As a matter of fact. And I'm not going
to talk about the architecture or the
construct of it. Like that's what I
won't do because I think what we're
doing is spec It's like spectacularly
unique.
Um and it is it is it is
forward-thinking for sure to be able to
do it all. But I will say you have to be
right. Mhm. And that's where the
limitation start cuz if you deliver the
wrong outcome
um for the customer, that's when you
start losing trust.
And so like during early access, like
rolling it out is a lot about that.
Like, okay, you know, if the customer's
asking for it, then they're coming on
board with us to be like, yeah, okay,
maybe it takes a millisecond too long or
um your deep fryer doesn't work the way
you thought it would with Alexa the way
it did 6 months ago. And now you can
tell us like, "My air fryer, it's not
turning on when I ask it to." And we're
like, "Ah, you have an air fryer." And
you don't think that is something
agentic, which it's not, but at the same
time because you have this LLM doing the
work, because you have this orchestrator
that's trying to call the right APIs and
still kind of figure it out. Uh maybe
your maybe your air fryer wasn't part of
the pro product in in the redesign and
so now we know. And we just make sure we
get it right. So, there's not a
limitation,
but it takes time and you have to get it
right.
Um and so we you know, that's been part
of the methodical process. And I don't
Yeah.
Am I right in thinking that that's the
most difficult part in building this?
Just incorporating that Yeah, because
Right. I mean, there's a couple of
things that are challenging, um but I
think it's one of the hardest parts
first understanding the customer's
context and what they're going for
um and then executing on it properly.
And they generally once you understand,
you can execute. Uh
But if you're wrong about the
understanding and the LLM, you know,
relative to and our agentic system, if
you will, is the way I'll put it. Uh we
have a pretty sophisticated way of
handling it, but remember this, you have
to do it at speed.
Mhm.
You know, customers have the It's pretty
unique. Let me I'll give you an example.
When you speak to something, you expect
a certain speed. When you type
something, you expect a different speed
in a response. It's pretty fascinating.
As a matter of fact, in I call it, you
know, being our product has to be
contextually aware. Like if you use the
Alexa app right now and you and you
speak to it, it's going to give you a
shorter answer with less information.
I think that's a good choice. Right. But
if you take this long
>> that same question and type it into the
app, it's going to give you that full
familiar AI response that you would want
with the bars and the graphs and the
context and the link like
But you have to understand the
contextual moment for your customer.
It's just a very different level like uh
in in getting into your question, it's
like so there's another layer. One is
you're speaking, got it. You're in the
home, got it. You're you know, that
you're asking you want a point-and-shoot
answer. Like you want the time, you
don't want to talk about the time. You
just want the time.
But sometimes you want to talk about the
time. We got to know the difference.
And
uh you might say uh
Alexa, play. I want you to play this.
And that same thing could have been a
movie or
a song. We got to know.
And then when you get down to that's
contextual awareness.
And then when you get down to um
the phone,
if you're speaking to it, we don't think
you want us to recite have a
conversation with two paragraphs back to
you. So, the verbosity has to be
checked. And but if you type it, we're
like, okay, you have a little bit more
patience.
And so now all this just understanding
the customer's mindset is really
important. If you're looking for
something deep and you're searching for
it, then we'll just take more time and
get it for you and give it back to you.
But you that's also being contextually
aware and and the system is adapting for
it real time. So, just to sort of wrap
this segment up, I think a lot of people
are
confused about timelines here. Okay.
Yeah. And you know, it probably when we
see I'll just pick on Apple for a
moment. When we see the Apple
Intelligence WWDC where you see cool
videos of all this working seamlessly,
you might say to yourself this
technology is ready. It's coming
tomorrow, coming in a couple months. Um
I just read a a Bloomberg story that you
participated in and you had a colleague
participate in. And the last line was
like, it in 12 months we'll have a good
concept of where we're going to be and
even then we're not finished. So, this
idea that
our interactions with computers are
going to change overnight seems at this
point I think we can safely say that
that's that's not going to happen. It's
going to take years to actually see this
promise bear out. I don't know. It It I
don't I don't I don't know that I can
agree. So, let me just see if I can
Yeah. balance it because I Let's Why
don't we Let's do our best to remove
timelines.
If you're a tech forward thinker, you
should be using Alexa Plus right now.
Period.
Like there's you know, uh by the end of
October, like you should be full speed
getting in.
If you want to just be at the front end
of it, like right now, it's working.
I mean, it's it's it is my It is in my
daily flow.
Uh
The Is it still getting a few kinks out
and bugs? Sure, but I think there's
every product at this size on the
sense as well at some point. And so you
like you There's always more.
And so when you think about, but where
will you be in 12 months? I mean, it's
going to evolve so fast, but this is
this is the day one mentality. Like get
in and it's going to evolve tomorrow.
It'll just keep getting better. Like
literally just keep getting better.
And I think um so yeah, if you say where
you're going to be in 12 months, like
the product's still going to be
evolving. I think that's a fair
assessment, but it doesn't mean the
product's not ready for you to get after
it now. It just can do It'll be able to
do more
in 12 months. Like I get I get super
pumped about this because like if you
can get in, not I'm not like defensive,
but like excited. If you want to use
Alexa Plus, like you get an Echo Show
and or an Echo Studio or an Echo Max, an
Echo Dot Max this holiday, you get it
right away out of the box. You're going
to be delighted.
You're going to have a blast.
It's going to It's going to help
transform literally how you work with AI
around you.
I mean, I mean that. Like I mean, I
believe it. Right. But is it going to
keep getting better as well? Like this
is where we get confused about a few of
these things. Uh absolutely.
If you were using the product in April
when it came out
uh and you're using it now, it's an
evolved product. It's a different
product. So, it's it's that much better.
I think you will see a lot of evolution
over the next several months and years.
It's not going to stop. That's not an
Alexa comment.
But it's just in general. Like it's just
moving fast. You know that. I mean, you
know it better than anyone. You I bet
you it the majority of I mean, the few
of the conversations I've listened to
you have kind of they don't implicit you
know, it's implicit It's implied, but
it's not necessarily It's not easy to
say that. Right.
>> Cuz you know, like if say your product's
not ready. Like, no, I think it is. I
think you got to get after it.
Okay. You know, and um is it still in
early access? Yeah, would it just it it
does hint at, "Hey, come in here.
There's a little bit of risk to the
program. It's called an LLM, as a matter
of fact, like you you take that risk
every day if you're using any
AI product. And it's not a risk like,
you know, some weird worst-case
scenario, but you just got to make sure
the information you're getting's right.
I think with Alexa,
we're far ahead of it right now.
And I'm pumped about it, but you know,
end of October is really where it starts
to come to life. That's when the devices
uh the new devices come to market um
at the end of October. And right at that
point, I think, you know, you're going
to you will see another surge of energy
around the product. Okay, so you are
head of devices and services at Amazon.
We've talked about services, really, the
in this first half, Alexa Plus.
>> You do it to me every time so far. Now
we'll flip it. We'll talk about devices.
We'll do it after the break. We're back
here with Panos Panay, the head of
devices and services at Amazon. First
half, we talked all about services,
Alexa Plus.
>> so, a little bit. Little bit. I always
do it to you. So now let's shift let's
change it up and talk about devices.
Let's do it. And I want to start kind of
theoretical, maybe maybe it's actually
reality for you because as we end up
getting what you call ambient AI, people
have called ambient computing, right? An
assistant. You started your presentation
at this press event in New York talking
about how you could be at the kitchen
table without your phone.
That was interesting to me.
Um
As you as you get to this point where
>> What, it was interesting or it
resonated? Both. Okay, resonated cuz I
would like that, but it was interesting
to me because it it showed the direction
of where devices could go.
>> Got you. Um as if we get this
contextually aware AI assistant that's
with us,
it it's possible that we will need a new
set of devices and the primacy of the
phone, which you not so subtly kind of
hinted at in this opening scene, could
end up um decreasing as we have things
like maybe smart glasses, as we have
things like contextually or or maybe
even smart headphones.
Even we have
AirPods with Siri in them today, but we
have there's Echo earbuds. Yeah. So what
does the future of the device look like
to you when we get past these early days
of the AI assistant and into where you
really want to see the vision play out?
Uh first, you focus on the devices that
are available to you now, for me.
Because what we're building and
releasing right now are probably, I
think, the right and best devices for
kind of ambient AI or
uh AI around your house, just that
contextual awareness that's possible,
whether it's your the Ring cameras or
the Echo devices.
I think you know this, but here's my
plug, you know, we just launched our
Ring 4K line, which I'm very pumped
about. And we and we launched four new
Echo devices, some new Fire TV devices,
Kindle,
Blink, but the
but the energy, I think, you you start
there. Like, great devices in the home,
I think, are critical to the to the
vision for, you know, if you're going to
be connected to your assistant. And
um that's I think that's the promise in
what we're delivering this holiday, for
sure.
I think the the way to answer your
question different um outside of now
because you know, it's you never want to
talk about here's what the future of the
devices when you're Really? When I'm
when I'm handing you and hoping that you
um
love what we're presenting right now to
buy.
>> but it it's such a relevant question
though because
you've acquired the startup, this is
from the Bloomberg story, the startup
called B,
which has a wristband that can record
your day and send a summary to a phone
app. There's also new
reports that you have
smart glasses under development, earbuds
under development. Right. So
talk I mean, it's having it's having a
chance to speak with you is a a chance
for myself and our audience to see to
get a chance to dream a little bit about
where this could end up. Well, if you
look,
you know, I think over time what's going
to happen is jobs are going to move to
different devices, for sure. And because
right at this point, you want um
the smarter your assistant is about you,
the better it can work for you.
Like, the more personalized it is. And
by the way, the way we think about that
is customer's choice. You you choose how
much information you want to give to
your assistant.
The more it has, the better off it is.
And you can then see a world where jobs
move to different types of devices.
I love the story of um
years ago, I remember I was building a
laptop.
And at Microsoft?
Yeah. And and I remember at that time,
um I had a couple colleagues that were
like, "What are you thinking? The
laptop's dead."
This 15 years ago.
Look at Look at what you're using.
I don't think they can see it on your
camera, but look what you're using. By
the way, 15 years ago, it was dead.
And it was like, "What do you mean?"
Like, it's over. The phone has taken
over. The phone has replaced the laptop.
Um
and when laptops came out, desktops were
dead.
And when desk desktops came out,
mainframes were dead.
You know, and so none of that's actually
what happens.
What happens is the job moves, the
appropriate job moves
from device to device to device.
And again, as as users and customers
think of it as,
you know, the desktop got stronger at
what it does. Let's just call it full
rendering, CAD,
uh you know, if you will, code, like
just the things that you need
the desktop for, it just got stronger.
It just got better, actually. And the
laptop, it turns out, thank goodness for
phones cuz the laptop got better.
It didn't It didn't go away.
It got better for the jobs it had to do.
And the jobs that were better on the
phone, they moved to the phone.
I think if you if you And then there
were tablets, and you can I can tell you
that story would take us another whole
podcast. But if you just look at that
funnel, I do think to your question is
jobs are moving off the phone.
But it doesn't mean the phone isn't
critical.
And those jobs, they they might look
like
And those jobs, they they might look
like wearables. They might look like
earbuds. They might look like other
devices because those points of input,
if you have a great assistant, you want
your assistant with you. You want to be
able to give it those inputs. Your
example of B is a good one, but the but
it outside of pointing at products that
I don't talk about because I'm not
pulling a product out of my lab and
putting it on this table right now and
talking about it. But I will say
we have to think about it that way. We
want your assistant
um to be with you and to be great and to
understand you,
um take that calendar example. It's It
needs more information.
Needs all It needs all of it. And the
more you give it, the stronger that um
kind of foundational outcome of having a
great assistant becomes.
And because Alexa is that, because we
believe it's the world's best personal
assistant, I think it is right now, and
I'm sure it will be in 3 years.
But the
uh it that contextual awareness is going
to matter. And so the device itself will
be I I believe there is a world where
there are devices that are going to be
doing specific jobs for you. That I will
tell you. So what jobs do the wearables
>> form factors to do so.
What jobs do the wearables do?
Um I teed you up for that one. So I'm
brought that onto myself. Uh
you know, I think important, like
listening at the right time, watching at
the right time, or looking, or taking
pictures,
maybe taking senses off your body. Like
yesterday, we announced an integration
with Oura for wellness. And you're
wearing the wearable, you get back home,
and you ask Alexa, you know, how much
how many steps did I have today? Can you
just help me think about it? Or
do you think I'm on pace? And
you can tell Alexa, this is a good
example. Like, I could just stay in the
present, where let's use Oura. There's a
wearable on my finger, I get home.
Oura understands my bedtime rhythms and
lets Alexa know, and Alexa basically
says, "Hey, P, it's time for bed." Or
don't forget, I'm going to set a
reminder for you every night when you're
30 minutes away from your bedtime, and
I'll just announce it for you so you're
aware. I think that's a job that gets
simpler. It's You don't need a phone
with you. You don't need anything. You
just You have your AI assistant tell you
at the right time. I think it's an
example of like, what is it that you
want to share
um so then your products can come
together, and then ultimately your
assistant can
um
deliver the information so you can make
your, you know, be informed and make the
right decision.
Are you independence?
I bet.
Think the pin that
>> Oh my god, you're not You're not going
to let me go. All right. Uh
I don't know.
I don't know either. That's why I'm
trying to
>> Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Like, you uh I
like I think it's I think you I think
you'd be wrong not to look at all the
potential form factors if you were
sitting in my seat
>> Right. and studying them. I will tell
you, we we won't
Here's what I won't do. I just won't
create something to see if it works.
Okay.
So then let me ask you a question about
that because I'm curious what Is that a
fair answer? Cuz I
Come on, man. I'm not going to tell you
like, here are the seven things I might
be building. But at the same time, we're
in this place of like,
>> we still have to learn. Like, the this
agentic
kind of the agentic opportunity with
devices, which by the way, I mean, we
can
Give me 4 hours. Let's just talk about
product. But
We could do that. Yeah, I mean, it it's
what I geek out over. I just In this
case,
it'd be it'd be wrong of me to say what
I'm building or thinking about, but also
tell you that I come not right.
Okay. There's a lot to learn, and we you
have to take your time on this stuff.
You have to You with urgency. You have
to be relentless. You have to act on
these Let's use your day one example
right now. Right. Every device in the
lab, we're day one on it. Mhm. There's
teams building. They're a team thinking.
Like, what is it but there's none of
them are potentially candidates to put
in market. That's not the goal. Well, I
did this so this is a great follow on to
that cuz I did want to ask you what
Amazon's device release strategy is now.
And I'll tell you like this is the
conception that I think the public had
for a while. Okay. Um All right. I mean
I can't really know that I can comment
on the past but I will try.
So, we thought I I'll talk about myself.
Okay, good. Apple would release a
product when it was perfect. Um
and
the thought was Amazon in some ways
would throw spaghetti at the wall. That
there was an Alexa microwave and an
Alexa alarm clock. Everything with Alexa
in it. Um but I I'm curious is is that
the right way to think about it? Like,
when do you say it's time to bring a
product to market?
>> No.
Um
when it's Well,
here's how we talk as a team. Yep.
How about that? Great. Love to hear it.
Um
One, you have to know what the one thing
you're delivering to your customers is
and you have to be perfect about it.
Like perfect.
We have to think about these products in
a way that every single detail matters
and is thought through for the customer.
Not just for the sake of design, not
just for the sake of beauty or cost but
for the customer.
If you can pull those two things
together and it ties to the greater
vision of serving the customer to go
deliver against in this case Alexa for
the AI assistant, like that product
moves.
But it is purposeful.
It is not guesswork. Mhm. It's tied to a
vision. The The way we talk to the team
is very simple.
You You make a great product for the
customer.
Great.
I mean great. Think it through and back
to those principles I just gave you.
What's the one thing? What are the
details? What is the speed? When is it
When should it be in market? And of
course there's a whole business case
around each one of them. But is it first
is it great for the customer and it
needs to stand alone as a great product.
And then you have to look across.
And these are both true.
Great on its own but magical when
connected to the other ones.
End of story.
It's a very very simple to say. It's
like it it teeters on impossible to
deliver.
Which is how it should feel. Like, if
you're pushing the boundary and making a
great product to the point of you you
maybe you're not going to make everybody
happy but you got to know damn well what
you're doing to make the customer you're
targeting happy. Mhm. That is not
random. It's not What was it? Spaghetti?
Spaghetti at the wall.
>> Spaghetti at the wall. It's not maybe.
It is be purposeful. There are plenty of
devices that get towards the end that
don't make it to the shipping floor.
Okay. And you you have to think about it
of And plenty's a relative term in my
world. But it it is you do have to think
about it as customer first. What do they
need? What are you delivering? Make a
great product for them.
And then make sure and Alexa Plus is
that tissue that connects it all. Like,
make sure it connects across.
So, when you're buying a device from
Amazon, you know you're going to have a
great product, a great product. And by
the way, it's likely affordable. It's
likely a pretty damn good price. It's
likely what you want to pay for
something to still covet it.
But also that it's going to connect with
the other devices in a beautiful
seamless way. Okay. So, last time you
were here I asked with I ended with a
question of whether I should get an
Alexa with an Echo with a screen. Check.
Now I have another concluding question
for you. Yeah.
>> I recycle my old Alexas? My old Echos?
>> Send them back to me. I'll give you a
massive discount and I'll recycle one
for you. But is that the standard way
like a standard customer who has cuz I
have first gen Echos in my house. I'm
going to go out and buy this new studio.
Actually in the March event, I think you
showed the last generation of the
studios and the sound was so good I told
myself I need that.
>> Yeah. So, I'm going to go out and get
this new generation
We sold out of
>> I've been looking at amazon.com
>> That was my fault. I I don't know if it
was my fault but the team that's a great
product and so Right.
>> I can't get any for myself by the way.
Okay. So, there's a new a new studio
which is the big premium speaker Yeah.
that you introduced.
>> fits beautifully, man. It's really It's
I mean it is literally designed. It's
the larger one. It's the larger one.
>> Larger one, premium sound, sounds really
good. Did you get into the spatial audio
booth? No. There were a lot There were a
lot of reporters at this event so Come
on, man. It was so good. It It sound It
was It was
It was
It was magical. All right.
>> I'm I'm bummed. I'm super bummed.
>> to get in trouble if I end up buying
like six Echos
>> You won't get in it. I think it's going
to be okay. Uh but so so but for it for
um
a standard customer, right? Uh
you're you want to recycle your current
devices.
>> Mhm. The worry that I have is I have my
logged in with all my personal
information. Do I go to just go to the
Alexa app and erase it and then
toss it or what's the standard process
to recycle it one of those devices?
>> There's a couple. We have a trade-in
program at I'm not even kidding. We have
a trade-in program. Trade it in, get a
discount for it. Mhm. We're going to
make sure we do We're very aggressive
with it because we like environment is
like it's one of our the climate pledge
is a massive deal for us and like making
sure the recyclability is there. We do
build our products to make them as
recyclable as possible of course but
there's there you know, consumer
electronics is tricky. Um you can take
it back to any Amazon store I believe
like or um
What do you call the shipping center?
Drop point.
>> Yeah, the drop points.
Um
and we can take care of it there for you
as well.
All right. Well, like I said at the
beginning of the show,
I I I don't take it for granted to get a
chance to
sit down with you and get a real
conversation about where this is
heading.
>> Yeah. It's obviously very enjoyable for
me but for our listeners extremely
illuminating.
>> enjoy the Did you enjoy the event
yesterday? Yeah, I did.
>> Just to just to see like how it went for
you. I I I think there's there's an art
in being able to speak to a crowd um but
also feel like you're having a
conversation with them. And I think you
have it down. Oh, thanks, man. But did
you get to meet the I'm really I'm
curious. Did you get a time to meet with
the team and hang out a bit and spend
your time there?
Uh I had a big interview to prepare for.
You did? What does that look like? Is it
You talking about this one?
I appreciate the time with you by the
>> Definitely. So, thank you and and please
come back. Will do. All right,
everybody. Thank you so much for
watching and we'll see you next time on
Big Technology Podcast.