OpenAI’s Risky Browser Bet, Amazon’s Mass Automation Plan, Clippy’s Back

Channel: Alex Kantrowitz

Published at: 2025-10-27

YouTube video id: dYa2bz89W20

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYa2bz89W20

Open AAI is in the browser game. We go
hands-on and tell you whether it has a
chance. Amazon has an ambitious plan to
automate hundreds of thousands of jobs.
Meta does major AI layoffs and Clippy's
back. That's coming up on a Big
Technology Podcast Friday edition right
after this. Welcome to Big Technology
Podcast Friday edition where we break
down the news in our traditional
coolheaded and nuanced format. We have a
big show for you today. Lots of ground
to cover. We're going to talk about
OpenAI's Atlas browser. We're going to
talk about Amazon's mass automation
plan, or should we even call it that?
It's a fascinating story. We're going to
talk about the the layoffs at Meta's AI
division fair. And of course, Clippy has
returned, which we will herald at the
end of the show. Joining us as always on
Friday to do it is Ranjan Roy of
Margins. Ranjan, great to see you.
>> Good to see you. Clippy's back. Clippy's
back. I cannot wait though. They are
called Mo or Mo. We'll get into that in
just a bit.
Mo as in Microsoft co-pilot. Mo get it
very catchy. But I am I'm looking
forward to our clip.
>> That works. That works. That works.
>> I've heard worse names.
>> I I've actually That's not a bad name. I
I'm going to give it to them.
>> Okay. So, I think Atlas is a great name.
And Atlas, of course, is the name of
OpenAI's new browser. Uh it is an AI
first browser meaning that there's a
side panel where you can browse or talk
about the web pages that you're on with
chat GPT and you can also start to ask
it to do things like book me a flight.
Then it will ask you do you want me to
actually go ahead and uh access these
websites with your logged in accounts or
logged or as if you're not logged in and
then away it goes. It will do actions
for you. Of course in the browser wars
many companies have tried to unseat the
incumbents uh but few have succeeded and
by few I mean none have succeeded. So
Rajan both of us have had a chance to
download Atlas and play around with it.
What is your first impression here? Do
you think that it's going to be a
legitimate competitor to Google Chrome
and Safari?
>> I think AI browsers are going to be the
future. And even when I say first
impressions this week, I used DIA from
the browser company. I've been testing
it for a number of months. I've been
using Perplexity Comet. So to me, the
Chat GPT atlas it not it wasn't anything
that exciting in terms of like what is
interesting about an AI browser. And
again, having that kind of like right
panel, being able to rather than copying
and paste text, which I do all the time
with a chat assistant, having it all
right there and ready to actually be
kind of like ingested into your me like
chat assistant's memory, being able to
ask questions, summarize things, all of
that. I I think there's no doubt in my
mind that that is going to be the
future. I I'll say though the action
mode do stuff for me and we've talked a
lot about thought partner versus
actually doing things. I had not seen
anything that interesting at least in my
usage so far though I have not been
asking it to do too much and giving it
too much sensitive information and we'll
get into why in just a bit. What about
you?
>> So I have definitely enjoyed using it. I
think that this is the future of the
browser. The question is, is it going to
be something that OpenAI can
ride and unseat the incumbents or that
the incumbents will effectively adopt
into their products? And this idea of
having an AI assistant or an AI chatbot
in your side window and then giving it
some capabilities to go surf the web to
me, you know, it would be great and
really meaningful if your competition
wasn't Google. Yeah, maybe there's a
chance that it unseats Safari in some
way, but uh I you know trying to go
against Chrome is going to be really
really tough. Uh because Google does
have the the talent to build this into
their product. They will they already
have Gemini baked in uh to some extent.
So many things on the internet work as
with Chrome as the default. Like you and
I today we're recording on Riverside.
It's a podcast recording platform. Um it
doesn't work outside of like Chrome and
Safari. So you basically have to get all
this compatibility built in from the
ground up. Although I do think actually
Atlas is built on Chromium, which is an
interesting
>> which is an interesting uh um sort of
wrinkle in all this that it's built on
Google's open-source browser technology.
Uh but then there's other there are
other things that are just not great
there. Uh for instance, the New York
Times seems to block it. So, if you want
to go to ny times.com and then like ask
the the uh bot in the side panel of the
browser to like navigate the site for
you or to uh speak with it about the
stories there. It just can't can't do
it. Obviously, New York Times and OpenAI
are engaged in legal battles today. So,
uh there's obvious strengths. I do like
I do agree with you. It's going to be uh
a feature in browsers moving forward,
which is exciting. Uh but but maybe this
isn't the one.
>> Well, I I think to me there's two levels
of how you can use an AI browser. Again,
the first one is just summarize some
stuff for me, take some information
that's on a page. Uh like I I very
regularly with chat GPT now I have to
travel a lot for my work. I'll kind of
like paste in my flight info, hotel
info, meeting schedules, and then ask it
to kind of make me itineraries. That's a
lot of manual copy pasting that now
already I'm able to just say pull my
flight info from this page and just pull
it into your system and into this
project in memory and it'll remember it.
So so that layer I think is is already
working very smoothly. I think the the
bigger issue though is I I I actually
had luck when I was doing my taxes this
year and this was with Dia from the
browser company like fill in this form.
What do I need to do for this box? That
was kind of my first aha moment of like
having to fill out a really complex
annoying form and actually it going and
doing all that work and then providing
me suggestions in that right panel of
what I should be potentially filling in.
But I didn't actually have it fill in
the form for me. I had it kind of
analyze it, understand it, explain it to
me, but still I was I was adding in the
numbers. Like to me that's still that
next step. I have personally not done
anything yet where I've like had to go
out and I don't know run an entire
workflow or do some entire I don't know
take take a take some kind of meaningful
action for me. Did you did you have it
actually buy you a flight ticket or a a
new a new pair of pants on Amazon or
something like that?
>> Well, Lord knows I do need new pants.
Um, but I will say
>> listeners cannot see Alex is wearing a
pretty cool new blazer today. So
>> that's right. We're uh we're powder blue
here today.
>> Powder blue
>> in honor of our descent into winter. Um,
we I just saw one of those tweets that
it's not going to be light uh at uh
after 6:00 p.m. until like May uh in in
New York. And I guess like this
longitude or or latitude, I don't know
which which one it is, but
>> latitude. Latitude
>> is latitude. And uh you know that makes
me sad. So I had to bring in some some
light colors for uh for some contrast.
But um one Okay, I'll tell you one thing
that was interesting to me. I did go to
try to book have it book a flight for me
and um there were limited flights from
New York to Berlin and I was curious
why. So, while I'm having it like go and
try to book the flight, I'm now talking
to the chatbot about the reasons why it
might happen. Like, there was this cyber
attack at a bunch of different airports,
and I was curious whether that had
something to do with it or not. Uh, so I
do think that there's this like really
interesting capability where you have
the action and the sort of uh
information both at your fingertips. Uh,
and I think that could be really
interesting. We I did see though RS
Technica had an editor basically go and
pressure test it in a bunch of different
ways and I was fairly impressed with
some of the things that the bot was uh
supposed to do. Should we go through a
couple of these cases and we can talk
about whether they're impressive or not?
>> I actually loved these examples.
>> Okay, so this editor, by the way, is a
complete madman for what he had this bot
do. So the first thing he asked it to do
was go to uh 2048, the game 2048. If you
don't if you don't know what 2488 is,
you kind of mix uh you you you collapse
these cubes into each other. Each has a
number that like numbers will collapse
into bigger numbers. So if you have a
two and a two and you move them, you get
a four and then you have to get another
two and another two together and another
four and you move converge the fours,
you get an eight. That's my best
explanation of 2048. Although I imagine
most of our audience has probably played
it.
>> I I have not and your explanation didn't
clarify it for me, but but I can tell
it's a tough one. I can do it.
>> This is a public service. So, you
should, by the way, if Ronjan, if you
travel a lot, I guarantee you 2048 is on
at least some of the uh inflight
entertainment systems of the of the
airlines you fly on. Just go to games.
Okay. But anyway,
>> very quick note, I I was flying back
from London this week and I I ended up
I've already watched every movie that's
available. I started playing solitire on
the inflight entertainment system and I
realized I hadn't played that in like
two decades or something like that. But
I I don't know if for for any of the
older listeners there, there was a time
when that was the only game that was
really available on the computer by
default and everyone in the world was
playing solitire and I still remembered
how to play it.
>> Still still enjoyed it.
>> Don't engage in mind sweeper eraser
here. All right, you can take your
solitire, but if you really just believe
that mind sweeper doesn't have a place
in the history books, uh I got nothing
for you, Ronchan. Okay. Can I can I
continue this or should we keep talking
about continue?
>> All right. So So here's what the editor
said. When it came to the actual gaming
strategy, the agent started by flailing
around, experimenting with loop
sequences of moves like up, left, right,
down, and left, down. After a while, the
random flailing settled down a bit with
the agent seemingly looking ahead for
simple strategies. The board currently
has 32 tiles that aren't adjacent, but I
think I can align them. Basically, this
a this agent went and the on the browser
went and started to figure out this game
uh and ended with a score of 356 after a
couple minutes. Um but after this editor
prompted it to keep playing, it ended up
with a score of 3,164.
Um and the editor says that's pretty
similar to the score I was able to get
in a test game as a 2048 novice. I mean,
the fact that this bot, you know, with
access to the screen was able to get
this, I won't call it the most complex
game in the world, but a decently
complex game, uh, figure out the rules
seemingly from, I don't know, maybe from
scratch or not, and and play to a novice
level to me was quite impressive. Well,
I I I actually would be curious, is it,
and maybe this is too granular, but like
I'm I'm very curious. Is it learning in
the moment and on the fly or is it
actually going out and learning the
rules of Play 2048 like from other
websites or from the website itself?
Because it actually is a difference in
terms of like how these systems will
learn and how they will navigate. Like
are they using contextual knowledge or
are they actually able to look at a
graphic and understand it in that
moment, do a move, then have to take
kind of like another screenshot,
understand that image. I'm actually not
sure, but I I think cuz the latter would
represent like a pretty insane level of
intelligence, let's say.
>> Yeah. One thing I'll note is that AI has
always not always uh AI has been trained
to play games. So this is something in
the toolkit of AI. Uh but it does seem
at least from this explanation that it
sort of figured out what it what it was
doing on on the fly. Basically going
from repeated patterns and then learning
uh to get better as it went. So
>> all right. So games games are okay.
Check.
>> Yeah. I think this is impressive. Okay.
The other next thing this editor tried
to do is uh he tried to get the uh agent
on the Atlas browser to go to a radio
station um find the songs that were
playing and then and then turn those
songs into a Spotify playlist. I I don't
I I'll just cut to the chase. The the
bot was really able to do this. I mean,
the only limitation here was the fact
that it didn't want to work forever, uh
which I understand, but it was able to
navigate to the radio station web page
and build a playlist. I just think
that's such a cool thing. Like if this
is something that's going to be
operating in the background to like go
to local radio stations and have it
build playlist is impressive. Oh,
>> I I think this one was very impressive.
But also, if we kind of extrapolate what
that means it can do. It's an always on
browser that is doing something. It's
able to actually find a bit of
information within that and then go into
a completely separate system and take
some kind of action. So, so I think this
actually is like a good representation
of lowrisk. It's adding a song on a
Spotify playlist. If it screws it up,
it's not the end of the world. But like
actually taking information from one
system and putting it into another, you
know, like authenticated
system. So, so all right, Spotify check.
Not bad. Not bad.
on that use case. It the editor also had
to go through his emails over the past
week, collect all the contact
information, name, email address, phone
number for PR contacts uh in those
emails and add them to a Google Sheet
spreadsheet. And not only did the bot do
this, uh it added the relevant company
name, which uh this editor did not ask
for in the prompt. It had 12 rows of
well- formatted data for 12 different PR
contacts. Uh the the guy says it stopped
well before it had a chance to go
through all 164 emails returned by that
initial Gmail search. But that too is
impressive to me. Well, this is one
actually I think this raises an
important question around AI browsers.
This is the kind of work that I still it
blows my mind that Google for how much
better Gemini standalone has gotten like
why this stuff does not work in Gemini
and regular Gmail and sheets and how
they don't work together well because
come on guys like this should be table
stakes for Google itself when it's only
it's in its ecosystem but I think it
raises a big question of like I've been
thinking about this for a while like
this browser takeover idea this kind of
like I'm going to use a browser. I'm
going to use the web as it is. But if
you think about it, a problem like this
is anformational one. So it should be
solved by like within Gmail itself or
with the Gmail API or with model context
protocol and not a browser kind of
clicking through robotically your Gmail.
And so it's still amazing to me that
this system it seems impressive and
useful, but to me these are the kind of
use cases that don't actually make sense
for for an AI browser,
>> right? Well, the question is, do you
need a browser or is it just an
extension? And why is this a browser?
And so let me just put it to you because
um I think this is like a good
opportunity now. We've seen a little bit
about what it can do. Uh we of course
know the strengths and limitations. Do
you think five years from now we're
still talking about OpenAI's Atlas
browser?
>> No. No, I don't either. I said I said
that like pretty quickly. But the reason
is OpenAI has been on fire with product
releases, but they're releasing a lot
and a lot of it is kind of halfbaked.
And in this case, like I don't think the
browser element is going to make or
break their business. I think it to me
even the way I see the world going is I
actually think websites become less
relevant. Clicking around a website
doesn't become that primary interaction
that an AI has with that the underlying
information. Again, when we talk about
travel booking, yeah, it's nice that a
browser is going to go to Expedia and
click around or whatever it is, but like
to me, there's no reason it shouldn't
have the the more efficient way for it
to work is to actually just directly be
connected to some flight database of
information and like be able to interact
with it and take some action as needed
versus it it's just clunky and
inefficient to have to navigate a
website for an AI. So that to me that
part is the one thing that doesn't make
a lot of sense. And then I also and
we're going to get into security again,
but like I think this is going to be a
huge issue for this entire concept. And
I think OpenAI is probably the least
trusted in terms of like working on
security relative to like whether it's a
Microsoft or a Google or even an Apple
or whoever else. I think OpenAI is going
to lose that battle any day of the week.
So what do you make briefly about the
fact that OpenAI does create many of
these apps with a lot of buzz and then
we have seen them fall off. I mean uh
Sora I don't know what the longevity of
Sora is at the top of the app store
charts but I'll tell you it has been
replaced at the top of the top charts.
Uh do you know which app has replaced
Sora on the top of the app store charts?
>> I do not but I'm very interested. Alex
is holding up his phone. Dave's Hot
Chicken.
>> No. What?
>> Dave's Hot Chicken is number one now.
>> Yep. It's tender, juicy, and made to
order. It has a really actually a great
mascot. It's a chicken actually.
>> Oh, I I I know uh listeners, longtime
readers of margins will know that fried
chicken is something that I uh spend a
lot of time thinking about and and and
eating and interacting with. And uh
>> Dave's Hot's pretty good. It's pretty
good. I'm actually
>> I have to say I'm looking at the the app
home screen here and I think I see why
Dave's Hot Chicken has uh displayed
Sora. I'm counting there's at least four
fried chicken patties and it looks, you
know, to my counting maybe eight buns.
So maybe it's just a a quadruple decker
chicken sandwich and the internet could
not handle that. Do you know who uh
which musician is a major investor in
Dave's Hot Chicken and actually made a
big a lot of money when it was uh when I
think it was some PE firm bought him out
for like a billion dollars.
>> Dave mean that music?
>> No, that would have been too easy. Drake
for whatever reason.
>> Drake.
>> Drake. Drake.
>> Has to be Drake.
>> Drake was uh one of the big guys in
Dave's Hot Chicken.
>> Okay, but let's get back to the matter.
We digress. We digress briefly. Um, so
what do you think about this? Like is is
OpenAI obviously OpenAI has shown that
it knows product and the flagship
product is doing incredibly well. Chat
GPT 800 million users although maybe 750
million now because Meta I don't know if
you saw this they removed 1800 chat GPT
from WhatsApp for whatever reason. Um
but but so they're they're obviously
good at product. Uh but they they I
guess it's good. I my personal
perspective is it's good they're taking
all these shots. What do you think?
I think it's it's a tough one because
like Sora I I mean I've gone back on
there. I still again with my son I think
I can tell you the most recent Sora
creation was he wanted to be playing a
trombone that farted and I I went with
it and that's that's use case number one
for Sora in today's environment is just
stupid fun ridiculous videos that you
quickly make you laugh at and then you
forget about like on my feed there was
nothing interesting or new like those
first few days I feel like Sam Alman was
all over there there was there's a bunch
of other, you know, there's creativity
happening. I have not seen anything. So,
that is a perfect example of like the
technology is impressive. The app and
the experience is just kind of thrown
out there. There's some hype and then
you move on. I think it either there is
some real master plan of how all this is
going to come together or they're just
throwing a bunch of stuff out and they
have so much money that they can just
product develop the hell out of whatever
they want and then they're just going to
anything anyone does in the AI space
they'll throw out some kind of lukewarm
version of and I mean maybe it lands,
maybe it doesn't, but do do you think
there's a plan here or
>> not really but uh I I I mean they're
going after big markets, right? So sort
of big big market going after the social
media apps like Tik Tok. Um obviously if
you get a hit browser, it's worth taking
the ch the chance because then you sort
of control search and you don't have to
pay for defaults like Google's had to
with in in the mobile space. So, I mean,
I was speaking about this with Panos
Pane uh from Amazon this week about uh
the the you know, do you want to be
really refined in your product strategy
or do you want to throw spaghetti at the
wall in your product strategy? I am I
love the spaghetti at the wall strategy
as long as you have the money to back it
up. And so, I think that this is the
right move from
go for it.
making a great browser like it still
takes work in the maintenance of it and
like kind of like again if if the
interaction of every web page you load
is it's being pinged as as like an AI
crawler AI browser and that's going to
cause some issues that you're not
anticipating like all that investment
can go out the door if you're not
actually spending a good amount of time
on it so so I think I don't know it
feels like that chat interface. They
dominate. They own that space. Everyone
is in there. Like just basically like
killing the web off and letting all
interaction take place in chat GPT as a
strategy to me would make more sense
than trying to just be everywhere at
once.
>> Oh, they are trying to do that too. But
you do make a good point and it's worse
if uh if you end up using this browser
and you open yourself up to security
problems. So talk a little bit about
that.
>> All right. So this is my favorite
actually. Did you ever in terms of
browsers, did you ever uh use Brave?
>> No.
>> Uh quick quick history. This one was
personal for me. Uh Brave, it was a it
was a company. It actually came out
during the first crypto boom in like
2017. And they had a coin called Basic
Attention Token. um that basically the
whole idea is like you as a user would
get paid in a cryptocurrency to look at
advertisements. I was like obsessed and
fascinated by this whole idea. never
really panned out, but they have a
browser. Um, it's it's I think it was
one of the founders of Mozilla
initially, but anyway, they uh released
this whole research where they actually
went out and they created the what
they're called prompt injections. And
the idea is you're an AI browser, you're
looking at a page, you're like playing
2048 or you're on a local radio station
trying to figure out what song it is and
there's unreadable text to a human eye
like that's like in the same color as
some graphic on the page that is
instructing the LLM to do something
malicious. And again, just simply having
it take some kind of weird action is
like uh they're able to do. It's again
like uh I think they had it just go out
onto another website and show that this
would be possible but you can imagine
starting to see or even like one of the
examples they gave is you can add
comments onto a website. So not even one
that you own but go on to other websites
and add comments on Reddit or product
reviews on uh like retailer pages and
then trick the LLM into going and doing
something. So just imagine if people are
really opening I mean you just open up
your Schwab Fidelity Robin Hood account
and suddenly the browser can go do
things that you have no idea that it's
doing the it's able to take actions in
the background as we talked about is
cool that it's aggregating your Spotify
playlist when you're not even looking at
it. It could also be in I mean imagine
instructed by unseen text on a website
to go transfer your money to some other
account like I mean this this is
>> stock up oncoin. Yeah, go stuff. I mean,
no, but think about like if it's that
easy, people are gonna exploit the hell
out of this. And yeah, the the more I
was learning about this, the more I I
did not log into anything sensitive when
I was playing with Atlas. I was only
having it just like even logging into
Reddit. I was a little nervous around
like like but definitely not banking
information. I was not even logging into
my Gmail while using it.
>> Right. Okay. I just want to uh sort of
put a bow on this because we've talked a
lot about like these different agentic
capabilities and this is a word that
keeps coming up on the show. Um, we've
had a number of listeners reach out and
ask, you know, why haven't we talked
about the Carpathy interview on the
Dwaresh podcast where Andre Karpath is
basically like it's not the year of the
agent, it's the decade of the agent and
the technology today is just not ready
uh to sort of take that mantle and it's
going to take about 10 years. U to me I
so let's just spend a second on it. I'll
say to me that totally tracks with what
we've been saying on this show that this
is going to be it isn't going to be
overnight. Uh there are going to be
places it works and places it doesn't.
And the real question is um whether it
match you know is a mismatch with the
funding or not. You put all these all
this money in and you have to wait 10
years. Uh you could lead to some bad
aspects and people were saying that oh
this this is the interview that's going
to pop the bubble. Um doesn't look like
that happened this week. The S&P 500 is
up a point and a half. So
>> alltime highs, alltime highs,
>> alltime high. So the Carpathy the
interview didn't pop the bubble. But I
am curious what you think about his
perspective on the fact that it's going
to just take a much longer time for the
agents to work.
>> Oh, I loved that interview. I mean, I
think he was it a lot of people, I
think, misread it as overly bearish. I
took it as incredibly realistic. like
the way he even talked about the change
management side or like basically
organizations and people aren't
necessarily ready for what the
technology can provide and in many cases
the technology is not there for a lot of
the promise that's being made or as
we're talking about right now like
larger systems are not ready and we're
going to talk about Amazon and robotic
automation but like in so many of these
domains there's a lot more than just can
I make one quick run and show that this
is possible. And I think he was really
getting at that. And I think I to me it
was an incredibly realistic
perspective on the industry as opposed
to a bearish one. So I'm I was pro
Carpathy on this one. What about you?
>> Same here. I like what he said that he's
actually much more optimistic than most
of the skeptics, but also some of his
realism compared to like Sam Alman
saying that this stuff is going to cure
cancer in his most recent blog post um I
think is like taken as pessimism. But I
I we've both, you know, I think from the
start of our conversations about this
stuff, um we've tried to be as realistic
as possible. And so yeah, I'm going to
definitely, you know, praise someone
who's being realistic about it. And I
think I've talked about it before, but
uh Carpathy has his own YouTube channel
and they've the videos he puts up there
have been uh terrific in terms of just
explaining the basics of large language
models uh and where things are heading.
So all right, I definitely want to get
to Oh, go ahead.
>> And I really want to put a bow on this
segment as I have just learned. Do you
know why Dave's Hot Chicken app is the
number one app in the app store?
>> I haven't gotten that far. Apparently,
in honor of Drake's 39th birthday two
days ago and through this week, they're
giving out free sliders for Drake's
birthday. And that if you download the
app, I I see a video here in New York
56th and 8th, which I've actually been
to that Dave's Hot Chicken. There was a
a bit of a mini riot out there of people
trying to get in and uh get their free
sliders. So, cheers to the marketers out
there who could still cause a mini riot
by just giving out free sliders if you
download their app.
>> Well, allow me to say it loud and clear.
Uh, happy birthday to you, Drake, and
congrats for being the reason why Sora
is no longer number one on the app
store. You did it, man. You did it.
>> You did it, Drake. Thank you for just
bringing us back to what what tech
should be, a brand tricking you into
downloading their app for some chicken.
going back to the roots. So yeah, on the
other side of this break, we are going
to talk about this crazy Amazon story.
To me, the biggest tech story of the
week, the New York Times headline,
Amazon plans to replace more than half a
million jobs with robots. That's coming
up right after this. And we're back here
on Big Technology Podcast Friday
edition. Major story in the New York
Times this week. Amazon plans to replace
more than a half million jobs with
robots. I'll read the beginning of it.
Amazon executives believe the company's
on the cusp of its next big workplace
shift, replacing more than a half
million jobs with robots. Amazon's US
workforce has more than tripled since
2018 to almost 1.2 million people. But
Amazon's automation team expects the
company can avoid hiring more than
160,000 people in the United States. It
would otherwise need by 2027. That would
save uh 30 cents on each item that
Amazon picks, packs, and delivers to its
customers. Uh executives told Amazon's
board last year that they hoped robotic
automation would allow the company to
continue to avoid adding to its US
workforce in the coming years, even
though they expect to sell twice as many
products by 2033. That would translate
to more than 600,000 people whom Amazon
didn't need to hire. All right, couple
things here. It's not that they're going
to replace the people as far as we know
that are in the workplace in the the um
the warehouses today or fulfillment
centers as Amazon likes to to call them.
It's that they the uh coming robotics
would basically alleviate the need for
them to hire more people. So this
headline they're going to replace the um
the people I think is a little bit uh
extreme. Um but I'll just say this one
thing and then turn it over to you
Rajan. Um we are seeing the robotic
technology increase at an unbelievable
pace and of course a lot of that has to
do with uh years of research behind it
but also better uh AI models within
these within these things. And for
Amazon the real problem has always been
uh picking uh putting the items in the
the rack and then picking them out and
then putting them in a package. That
requires real dexterity of the human
hands uh that robots have not been able
to do. They're very good at shuffling uh
racks uh back and forth. That technology
has really improved tremendously uh in
recent years. And um whether that's
going to uh uh happen or not, I don't
know. But part of this story says Amazon
would like to see 75%
of its fulfillment center workforce
automated. Uh which means that they
believe that this technology is really
progressing. So let me turn to you Ron.
What did you think about this story? And
is it is it as scary to you as it sounds
to me in terms of the uh impact on
employment?
>> I think it's as scary as it sounds in
terms of like the impact of
unemployment.
I think it is inevitable again having
been in the retail world and like
pickpack ship is what you're describing
and seeing what robotics are already
feasible and you have it correct that
like like actually like receive like you
know a person reaching into one
container pulling into another
understanding which product it's
actually going to they are actually
going to pull putting it into a robot
that then takes it to a different part
of the warehouse that's how things
already work to replace that person
who's doing the picking and the packing
into like the as part of the process is
it's such a different skill. Robots I do
think are moving in that direction. I
think the where I see the speed of it
being very difficult is like uh
warehouses or fulfillment centers are
still built for people to do that work.
So, are you gonna have a And this kind
of gets back into like Optimus and do
robots have to look like humans and have
the same dexterity as humans versus you
actually build the fulfillment center
specific to what robots are best at? Um,
but yeah, and which we debated in the
past, I think, but uh but overall, I
think it's it's telling and I to me
there's no doubt that this is what a
fulfillment center will look like 10
years from now.
And I think we we do like to critique
some of the PR around this stuff. Um so
before we get deeper in uh there's these
lines from the time story that are
amazing. So this is uh you know
something where like it's clear that
Amazon wants to buy the community off.
Amazon is so convinced this automated
future is around the corner that it has
started developing plans to mitigate the
fallout in communities that may lose
jobs. Documents show the company has
considered building an imi an image as a
good corporate citizen through greater
participation in community events such
as parades and toys for tots. It is so
funny because like you know you see
these program you see oh here's Amazon
it's a sponsor and it's never quite
clear that there's a line between yeah
we're going to you know automate jobs in
your community or or raise the standard
the the um raise uh the prices of living
because of the salaries we pay engineers
and it's just clear that the company
blatantly sees these community
initiatives as like um PR tools to blunt
the impact. There's also uh the
terminology that they talked about
using. Yeah, I this this really just
made me want to fall out of my seat, but
I was on an airplane when I read it and
it would have been impolite. Um the
documents contemplate avoiding using
terms like automation and AI when
discussing robotics instead and instead
use terms like advanced technology or
replace the word robot with cobot.
>> I mean
that one it doesn't it doesn't bother me
as much. I think I think uh it's I
honestly would rather they're not just
throwing in AI for the sake of AI and
actually talking about what this what it
is. But it I will say in this market and
environment, it's almost scarier when a
company is like worried about their
technology being so good that they're
afraid to say AI versus every company
that's just stuffing AI into whatever
it's saying for the sake of it. So, so
maybe that that actually is a testament
to how far along they are,
>> right? But it's it's manipulative.
That's what I'm trying to say. It's
like, you know, it is a specific
language exercise and community
initiative meant to try to blunt the
image of what it's actually doing. Um,
and I just find that to be uncool. But
well, so my question is this is one of
the big especially for a retailer this
forecast that they will potentially sell
twice as many items. If no one is
employed, no one is buying these items.
Like this is the the kind of catch 22 I
see for an Amazon specifically like for
potentially other tech giants that are
not just selling consumer goods to
everyone to like the mass of the
population
that if there's a significant impact on
employment they're not selling twice as
much stuff like there's no way
>> maybe probably I mean hasn't that been
the problem in uh in the US in
particular for so many years we've gone
from a place where if you work on the
automation or if you work on the
assembly line of a car, you should make
enough money to buy the car to now that
you know you you sort of you you might
work on the floor of Walmart. You don't
have enough money to buy the car and
Walmart then goes to the suppliers and
demands such cheap prices that they send
the jobs away or automate them. We've
just been in this declining uh cycle of
lower wages. um and greater consumption
and just eventually it's yeah it's all
it squeezes
um the squeezes everything to the to the
bottom of the barrel at a certain point
and I think that's where we stand. It's
probably big reason for all the unrest
that we have in the US right now. Yeah,
I mean that's a much bigger discussion I
think but but I think the there's
already been a lot of pressure on
consumption around how like the models
of employment but we America's done
pretty good so far on the consumption
side of things. Um but basically we're
going to have to invent an entirely new
form of credit. It's the only answer so
everyone can keep buying stuff. I think
that you should just take
>> I say that in just to our listeners just
to make sure.
>> Yeah, you should take credit from the uh
Nvidia Bank of America and then just use
that to fund infrastructure and then
>> and your own personal consumption and
buying random on Amazon. Yeah.
>> Then when the AI bubble bursts, there
will be no
>> cascading problems. I'm glad we're not
doing that. I'm glad Mr. Beast might be
a bank one day, but Nvidia doesn't seem
like it's on that trajectory. So that's
good.
uh Amazon statement. So they said the
the documents, this is all in documents.
The documents feed by the times were
incomplete and did not represent the
company's overall hiring strategy.
Amazon also said that it's not insisting
executives avoid certain terms in that
community involvement is unrelated to
automation. And to that I say sure.
>> I'm sure as well.
>> I'm okay with that. Amazon.
So, let's just talk lastly about um
about what's going on. So, there is a
facility in Sher, sorry, there's a
there's a facility in Trevorport,
Louisiana that is a template.
Have you been there?
>> Uh, no, but I had a friend from
Shreveport. That's the only reason I
know.
>> God bless your friend. Thank you for
your friend. Um, it's a template.
>> Saved Alex on this one. Jacob,
>> thanks Jake. Big thanks to Jake. Jake,
go get yourself a a chicken sandwich for
free.
>> Hot chicken slider.
>> Yep. All right. So, anyway, it's a
template for uh this Shreveport
fulfillment center is a template for
future robotic fulfillment centers. Once
an item is there in a package, a human
barely touches it again. The company
uses a thousand ro robots in that
fulfillment center, allowing it to
employ a quarter fewer workers last year
than it would have without automation.
Next year as more robots are are
introduced, it expects to employ about
half as many workers there as it would
without automation. So I just want to
say one thing. Uh I wrote this book
about workplaces. Uh the workplaces of
the big tech companies um including
Amazon was the first chapter. The book
is called Always Day One. Okay. So it's
like clearly like Amazon inspired. My
belief was always that these companies
would find places for people whose jobs
they automated to do different things.
Um, but the one place that I really
could never uh fully wrap my head around
on whether that would happen was the
fulfillment centers. And I do I mean I I
think Amazon's going to accomplish its
goal. I think they're going to get to
that 75% automation. And I think that is
going to be, you know, I don't know. I
think it's going to be a clear problem.
Well, I think
>> because it's a major employer,
>> but the way you what you're describing,
I think the real reason there's so much
kind of like hype and unrest around
potential job losses, it's no longer in
the fulfillment center. It's going to be
in the corporate offices that you'll
actually see. In the past, in the
corporate office side, that's where it
always was. You know, you can uh you can
give them something else to do. There's
going to be new growth opportunities. To
me, that's why this is such a different
story right now is because that's where
the potential job loss is,
>> right? But I think what the Amazon story
is showing is that the potential job
loss might actually be in these
fulfillment centers uh as these robotics
get get uh more advanced. So, I mean, we
could see it in both areas really.
>> Well, I mean, and speaking of white
collar jobs potentially going away, did
you see the uh open AI investment banker
story?
>> I sure did. And as someone who has sat
on the floor of a banking institution, I
would like to hear your perspective on
it. So tell us what happened and give us
your thoughts on whether this is going
to be the end of the junior banker.
>> Well, and and also I I was on the sales
and the trading floor side, not the
investment banking side, but even more
so, I think the investment banking
profession has certainly been ripe for a
bit of disruption. And basically OpenAI
apparently there's something called
project mercury where they've hired over
a 100red ex bankers to train their
models to basically you know like do
that tagging work good answer not good
answer you know start helping like the
models understand different transaction
types IPOs like you know what are the
documentation look like what are the
right ways to approach it I think to me
like
>> wait they're they're uploading full full
financial models. I mean,
>> yeah. Uploading their own financial
model that the models can learn from
this stuff.
>> I think I mean this is it's an
interesting approach. So, honestly, the
most shocking part of it to me or the
funniest part was apparently they're
only getting paid 150 bucks an hour,
which is not it's I mean, it's not a ton
of money for especially for if you're in
the banking world. That one surprised me
a bit. But overall like this is I mean
this kind of work repetitive work that's
kind of just aggregating and kind of
like routinely synthesizing information.
That's the stuff that LLMs were made for
and that is what bankers would stay in
the office till 3:00 a.m. doing. So I
think I I kind of I enjoyed this one. I
think we should all should we all
celebrate project mercury.
>> Uh maybe I see this is the thing it's
still it's still so unclear about where
this is heading. Uh I'll give you one
example, right? Okay. So like what
happens when this stuff is automated?
Um, so I was in Mountain View this week
as part of uh one stop I had on a longer
trip across the US and I got a chance to
speak with Yosi Matias who is the head
of who's the head of Google research and
um I asked him I said well do you think
AI you know basically we talked last
week about how Google had this model
that came up with the hypothesis about
cancer cancer cell behavior and that was
actually confirmed in living cells to be
true which is unbelievable. So I asked
him I was like do you think AI which can
go out and do this stuff is going to
replace researchers or how does this
sort of net out? Um and so what he said
is uh we're actually going to need many
more researchers in all disciplines. The
only situation where you're going to
need less researchers is if you assume
that we practically have answered all
unanswered questions. I don't think
anybody here would think that we are
only understanding a tiny bit of what we
need to understand. Using alpha fold as
an example, AI automated the decoding of
protein folding. It led to the need for
more protein researchers because once
you have that foundation, you can
actually work on bigger problems and not
just decoding the structure of protein.
So that's sort of like my question is
like is is every uh occupation going to
have the same thing? Like if you think
about the vast space of research that
has yet to be uncovered, you can
automate, you know, all the work that
researchers are doing today and you have
so much more to do. And so does that
hold in like places like investment
banks or even in in companies where
they're automating customer service? Uh
does that hold and do they actually have
the same situation as the researchers
where they're going to need more people
as opposed to reduce the amount? I'm
still I'm going to say no because in
this case again you're going to be
there's going to be less of a need to
raise capital because no one's going to
have any money and there's going to be
no businesses growing. So bankers don't
need to go put together a pitch deck and
kind of like issue some new to buy some
new debt or you know like raise some new
equity on one side of it. But also the
correlary of that would be potentially
there's so many new financial products
that are being created thanks to AI that
it somehow maybe creates that new wave
of credit that we were talking about a
moment ago. But that doesn't sound
appealing to me either like getting more
potential financial products. So, I
don't I don't I don't see the
correlation between the like protein
folding and kind of like cellular
research and bankers being able to
automate an S1.
>> Hold on. I want to I want to turn this
back to you because uh are you saying
that we're going to have this technology
that's going to basically advance
productivity so much that and of course
this is the standard argument but are
you saying we're going to have this
technology that's going to advance
productivity so much that it's going to
be able to automate investment junior
investment banker jobs um and that will
lead to uh society that has so much less
money that they won't be able to consume
anymore? Well, I mean, not as direct as,
but it it all falls in line with Amazon
as well. They're if you're you're
automating away the warehouse jobs,
people don't need to buy more stuff, so
you're not going to sell twice as many
products. You're automating away more
white collar work, so the amount of
companies that actually need to raise
capital becomes less. Like, I mean, I I
I think that's the weird balance that in
this whole kind of job loss discussion
is ignored. It's like what are the
follow- on effects of not having the job
then the business itself doesn't keep
growing. So yes, that is what I'm
saying.
>> Okay, I will take the other side of
that. Uh but of course uh we'll only be
able to know in time. Okay, one last
thing about this because I think it goes
along with our job. The interview
process for these bankers is
fascinating. Have you So So this was the
craziest part of the whole story to me.
The application process for project
mercury involves almost no human
interaction. Uh the first step is a
roughly 20inut interview with an AI
chatbot which asks questions based on
the applicant's resume. The second phase
test candidates on their knowledge of
financial statements. The final stage is
a modeling test. I mean this is just
like reading those two paragraphs to me
is insane. the idea that you're going to
be able to like conduct an interview and
test an applicant's financial knowledge.
And again, this is coming from OpenAI.
So, they have the jump on how to use
this technology best before everybody
else. That is just fascinating. They've
literally replaced the human
interviewers and they have they're
trusting these people. They're going to
put the financial models that they make
into their into their AI model.
I I weirdly like this part of it mainly
because their job is going to be
interacting and communicating with an
AI. So, what better place to actually
have an AI interview you? It's one thing
if like you're interviewing someone for
a job and you're trying to just like cut
corners and having AI imagine like
you're having a your voice through 11
Labs conduct the interview and faking
it. But in reality, that person is going
to have to interact with people. So
that's a slightly different thing. But
this part place, their job is to talk to
the models. So why not start that in the
interview process?
>> I'm loving Project Mercury. I'm loving
Projectur.
>> I'm not even I'm just I'm not even
criticizing it. I'm pointing out how
crazy it is that they have the
technology that's able to do this.
>> Yeah, that's bananas.
>> It's bananas. I I agree. But it oddly
more so than Atlas, I'm going to give
this is OpenAI's win of the week.
Project Mercury.
>> I'm starting to understand really why
the Hot Chicken app is the top app. The
sorry, Dave's Hot Chicken app is the top
app. Here's what's happened. America's
jobs have been automated. They've spent
their days using Sora, but they are
hungry. It's Drake's birthday. They need
to eat. And now Dave's hot. That's the
Look at our future. It's the Dave
Chicken app future. This is this is
where we're going.
>> Listeners, go online. You will see
people clamoring and like pushing each
other to get some free sliders for
downloading the Dave's Hot Chicken app
for Drake's birthday. It just this story
pulls together everything about job
loss, automation, celebrity culture,
hot chicken, and food trends. Everything
in one tight package.
>> That's some This is the future
that the AIVCs want, isn't it?
>> Is this what you guys wanted?
>> Well, that's not too bad. At least
people are getting free chicken. Okay.
>> Yeah, but not you don't get your chicken
unless you're fighting your way to the
front.
>> Well, you got to got to work.
>> Nothing in life is free, Rajan. Nothing
in life is free.
>> No,
>> no such thing as free chicken.
>> Not even on Drake's birthday.
>> Maybe there is. Okay. Uh, one more
break. When we come back, we're going to
talk about the cuts at Meta Super
Intelligence Labs and then of course the
return of Clippy. We'll be back right
after this. All right, we're back here
on Big Technology Podcast Friday
edition, bringing it home. Meta has cut
600 jobs in its AI super intelligence
labs after spending, I think, billions
of dollars on AI talent. Here's the New
York Times. Meta said on Wednesday that
it cut approximately 600 jobs in its
artificial intelligence division. Um
Mark Zuckerberg has been on a hiring
spree to stack his company with AI
researchers. Uh but he has started to
cut. The cuts on Wednesday did not
affect the newest hires who've been
empowered to develop super intelligence.
The job cuts were aimed at cleaning up
the organizational bloat that resorted
that resulted from three years of
building up Meta's Meta AI's uh Meta's
AI efforts too quickly. Uh the layoff
help layoffs helped uh layoffs aimed to
help Meta develop AI products more
rapidly. Uh interestingly though they
did cut um some long tenur seemingly
superstar uh AI researchers. Uh Yuan
Dong Tian is one of them. Several of my
team members and myself were impacted by
these layoffs today. uh he's not
somebody who actually started um you
know who whose recent uh a a someone
who's been hired recently. He actually
was hired 10 years ago uh by fair and
most of these cuts came in the fair
division Facebook AI research or they
call it fundamental AI research now the
division started by Yan Lun to uh
advance the frontier of AI research
within meta Rajan what is going on over
there
>> well is Yan Lun going to stay do you
think
>> uh
>> he's been he's been on this show a
number of times right
>> three times uh obviously yeah we like
hearing from Yan
I don't know. I don't know. I mean, Jan
has stayed at Meta and previously
Facebook for many years uh in through
thick and thin. He's been one of the
company's biggest defenders. So, I will
say it doesn't seem like he can be happy
about this. I mean, this is really his
division. So,
>> what do you think is happening here? I
mean, I think this is
just a very weird but also not
unconventional complete like, you know,
organizational refresh. They bring in
new leadership. They bring in a bunch of
new people, get rid of the old people.
Mark Zuckerberg was clearly not happy
with their progress and where they were
before and he decided he wanted to do
something about it. I felt like that
detail that they concluded it had become
overly bureaucratic was definitely very
strategically leaked because I saw those
words everywhere and so like they
>> it's got to be a PR person on the phone.
>> Yeah. Overly and it sounds good and it's
like
>> it's also like it's according to two
people familiar with the matter I think.
So, it's like you just get two I mean I
don't know this is probably not what
happened but I'm just envisioning like
two PR people coming on the phone and
saying it and being like you can say
multiple sources told you this and then
you
>> and I mean they very clearly chose those
words and then it starts to paint this
picture and then everyone is like oh
yeah like slow bloated um you know like
no one likes overly bureaucratic things
so suddenly it kind of now you're
bringing the like hard charging
Alexander Wang in the TBD group and like
TBD lab. So I mean to me this is
actually kind of like standard
organizational
politics. I think it just happens to be
at a very large scale in terms of
salaries and importance but otherwise
it's not that surprising to me.
>> Yeah. You could call it do department of
Facebook efficiency.
>> Dome dome department efficiency. Yeah.
>> Don't you think you'd want all the AI? I
mean, I get it, but you just spent like
how much money?
>> Can't be that big of a cost. You're
still highly profitable.
>> Wouldn't you just want all the AI talent
you could get?
>> It's a good point that like you would
think just hoard I mean hoarding
resources from competitors is certainly
something our friends at Meta are are
great at. So like I think uh it I agree
it is actually kind of surprising that
they weren't just say saying but that
actually kind of I think is reflective
that it must have been very political
because otherwise it would be a
no-brainer that they just kind of keep
paying people and and make sure they
don't go to other places. So that means
that it must have gone down enough that
they're like we need to get rid of a num
number of people. What do you think
about this move? In a sign of the
escalating competition in AI, Meta said
Saturday uh it would cut off access to
non-meta chat bots like OpenAI's Chat
GPT on WhatsApp beginning next year.
This means WhatsApp's 3 billion users
would no longer be able to use Chat GPT
uh in the messaging app. I mean, one
thing that's interesting is all these
companies that profess that they're
dedicated to openness and the
advancement of the technology, like
second gets real, they're like,
"Yeah, not that open any."
>> Wait, wait, sorry. I was a bit confused
of this story. It said Meta is shutting
off 1 800 chat GPT within WhatsApp. So,
does that mean there is a large number
of people like actually toll-free
calling
>> chat? I remember when this came out, we
kind of joked about it, but is this one
of those weird things that could
actually have insane usage that we're
just missing? Like people are actually
toll-free calling chat GPT on WhatsApp.
>> Yeah, I think that uh I could be wrong
about this, but you could also just chat
with it. Like it's a phone number you
can also chat with, but I do think it's
a very
>> Kevin Kevin while specified shutting off
1800 chat GPT.
>> Right. Right. That's what I'm saying. I
think it's a phone number that you could
chat with, but but maybe not. All right,
we're going to have to look into this.
I'm going to be calling chat GPT and
then flirting and falling in love with
them, but not on WhatsApp anymore.
>> Trying to get it here. But um yeah,
apparently uh it's going to be one step
more difficult to fall in love, which is
good because we we do know that
according to the scientific research,
when the bot plays hard to get, it
actually leads to more deep
relationships.
>> That's what they're doing.
Thank you, Mark, for at least adding a
bit of friction into my flirting with
Chie BT.
>> That's right. Because now now my heart
will flutter even more. Okay, talk about
this this Reddit thing briefly and then
we'll bring it home with Clippy.
>> Yeah, just I wanted to we've talked a
lot about kind of copyright. I think
this is going to continue to be a story
this year. Basically Reddit in a kind of
baller move, they're suing a number of
providers including Perplexity for uh
like you know scraping Reddit data in
unauthorized ways. And what Perplexity
was doing is you know like if you ever
search something in Google and add
Reddit at the end, you'll get some
amount of information in the Google
search results without even going to
Reddit. Um basically scraping those
results. a a lot of companies have been
doing as a service and selling to OpenAI
Meta and Perplexity. But Reddit
basically tested they had a a fake post
that was only accessible in Google
search results but was not accessible
even by going on to Reddit or any other
way on the internet of being accessed
and it was showed up in perplexity
results meaning they were still scraping
Google for Reddit results and
incorporating it into their own system.
So, so I think to me Reddit is going to
play this really interesting role, I
think, because they do have one of the
most valuable data sets on the internet
for LLMs. Um, and they're kind of like a
good upstart.
I mean, they're a pretty big company,
but they're still like kind of like if
them battling the giants, I think is
going to land well. So, like the New
York Times suing OpenAI, I don't know. I
don't think that kind of draws as much
energy as Reddit saying it's our turn
time to fight back. So, and then
fighting back in pretty creative ways.
>> I I think this will make me sound more
cynical than I actually am. U but I
think it's worth just pointing out. Uh
what do you expect from an industry that
is built entirely off of taking people's
content without permission? Like it's
sort of the fundamental thing at the
base of this.
>> I know.
>> I'm not I'm not dismissing them. I'm
just saying that like, you know, it
doesn't surprise me. And like if
someone's telling you don't crawl
something, just don't crawl it. It's
kind of kind of disgusting. Then go for
it.
>> Well, but that's why the way they
approach this and tricked them or kind
of caught them. That's why it shows that
they know how to play this battle like
or play fight this battle like
>> so good. I mean, it has to happen. And
you would think they would lose their
you' think they would lose their um uh
gall and to do this after Anthropic got
hit with that massive lawsuit that could
cost it a billion dollars.
>> Yeah, but no one paid a billion yet. I
think it until there's like an
exorbitant cost to any of these
companies, nothing's going to happen.
>> No, you're totally right. Sad. All
right, let's go. Let's move uh to an
uplifting story to send everybody off
this weekend. Uh this is from Mashable.
Microsoft resurrects Clippy back from
the dead after 21 years and the internet
is wilding. Um, so basically if you use
Mo, which is it's interesting. It's this
animated face uh from Copilot. Here's
how Mustafa Sullean describes it. It's
expressive, customizable, and warm. The
optional visual pre visual presence
listen reacts and even changes colors to
reflect your interactions making voice
conversations with the bot feel more
natural. Mo shows support through
animation and expression creating a
friendly and engaging experience. So
that's mo I think it's interesting. But
if you poke it enough times it will turn
into clippy again. So clippy is back.
>> Wait, what do you mean it turns into
clippy?
>> Like
>> it's like an Easter egg. Yes, Easter
egg. So, if you have Mo on your phone
and you just keep tapping Mo's face,
apparently it has enough of it and it
becomes the great paperclip uh known as
Clippy.
>> And if you anger it enough, it will
become racist like the Microsoft chatbot
Tay if you remember the
>> get spicy
like
>> destroy your relationship.
>> All of the above. Microsoft Mo I think
might have a dark side. I think Mo, keep
an eye on them.
>> We brought it up at the beginning of the
show, but as I think about it more and
more, Mo is just the best bot name. It's
so good.
>> It's so good.
>> Yeah.
>> It's sensible. It like makes sense. It's
logical.
>> Michael.
And also I like the representation of AI
being this kind of floating
cartoony sunny yellow little character
rather than you know like the chat GPT
the the blue ball that kind of like
hovers and floats if you use voice mode.
Like I think Mo is a little cuter. Mo is
a little more
>> Oh my god. Just don't flirt with Micah
though. It's a little cartoon character.
Stay away. Stay away people. Well,
Mustafa did tell me that like he
believes that all AI is going to
differentiate on the basis of
personality. So, the fact that Microsoft
has made this move is not surprising to
me. And we'll see if he's right.
>> But let's I'm going to go I'm going to
go chat with Mo a bit because just being
Microsoft, I'm curious how uh how
authentically
engaging Michael is as a character
because they haven't had the best track
record on this. though.
>> That's true. Well, uh, maybe one day we
will see Mo give away chicken sandwiches
and then assert its rightful place at
the top of the app store.
>> That's our That's our future. And none
of us will have jobs. So, we'll have to
The only way you can get your food is by
downloading an app.
>> No, that and you have to beg Mo.
>> And you have to beg Michael.
>> You have to wait for it. You'll be like,
"Micha, can I get chicken?" And it's
like, I didn't hear the desperation in
your voice. Michael,
>> download this separate app and say
please.
>> Here's your tickets. Here's your tickets
for your chicken.
>> The more desperate you are, the more
buns and patties you get. So,
>> yeah,
>> it's like, ah, that was, you know, it
was only good for four buns and two
patties.
>> Welcome to our future, folks.
>> Welcome to our future. All right,
Ronjan. Good times.
>> You know what? I can't tell if I'm
enthused or depressed, but I'm happy
that we talked.
>> All this conversation, the only thing I
can say is I think I'm going to go to
Dave's Hot Chicken this weekend.
Hopefully after the crowd's died down. I
don't think I think I missed the window
for the free sliders, but you know what?
I'm employed. I'll pay my 12 or $13 for
a couple of pieces of that Dave's Hot.
>> That's right. All right. Well, Ron,
great talking with you as always. We'll
leave we'll leave it there. How about
that? We'll come back next week and see
how the sandwich was.
>> See you next week.
>> All right, everybody. See you, Ronan,
and see you all. I'll be back on
Wednesday with a conversation with uh
Medium CEO Tony Stubble about how AI is
going to impact the future of writing.
Uh, also looks like I might be able to
air that conversation I had with Yosi
Tas uh from Google. So, that would be
coming on Sunday or Monday. So, stay
tuned. And of course, Ron and I will be
back next Friday for a very spooky
edition of Big Technology Podcast on
Halloween. Thanks again and we'll see
you next time on Big Technology Podcast.