Capital One's Prem Natarajan: Why We're Building Our AI From The Ground Up
Channel: Alex Kantrowitz
Published at: 2025-12-15
YouTube video id: agLCmeqXrrM
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agLCmeqXrrM
Should you build AI from the ground up or buy off the shelf? This brand has an emphatic answer. Today we're joined by Prem Natarajan, Capital 1's executive vice president, head of enterprise data and AI and chief scientist to talk with us about how the company is putting together its AI strategy in an interview brought to you by Capital 1. Prem, great to see you. Welcome to the show, >> Alex. Delighted to be here. >> So, you have a very interesting history. you were really there on the ground up when uh Amazon built Alexa and we'll come back to that in a bit but you've really seen how companies build AI strategies effectively and you are running the AI effort at Capital One and I tease at the beginning that uh you know basically many brands are going through this question of uh debate really about whether to build or buy AI off the shelf and you have an emphatic answer you've chosen to build and that really has surprised me. So, talk a little bit about why you've decided to build your own AI stack rather than rely on off-the-shelf models. Uh why build and how did you how how did you decide how much to invest? >> Yeah, uh great uh kickoff question there, Alex. Um let me say you know our decisions are rooted um for most organizations your decisions uh at any point are rooted in your history and kind of the DNA of your organization uh and what has worked for you historically. So at Capital One um you know I think it's well known uh a very techforward uh u bank uh our CEO will often talk of us as being a tech company uh that uh is in the banking industry right uh now what has informed that I mean if you go back to the starting of Capital 1 uh our legacy is one of a company that is very effectively used uh decisions driven by data and analytics uh to make the best uh to deliver the best products and services to our customers. Uh that's really at the core of what we do. So when we look at this AI revolution and we ask ourselves what will it take to bring the full benefits of AI to our customers. Uh financial services are so central uh to our lives. Uh finance is so central to our lives and financial services therefore are so important. So our question always is how do we deliver the best? You look at it from that perspective. Uh we're building uh you know on a journey that started you know in a sense at Capital 1's founding but really over the last dozen years or so we've been on this tech journey. Uh we're the first company uh first bank that went allin on the cloud. Uh we're entirely uh on the public cloud. Uh that brings to us state-of-the-art software engineering, state-of-the-art practices, etc. We've been on this data transformation journey within that cloud uh cloud journey. Uh where not only is all of our data uh uh in the cloud uh but we have invested a lot in the curation in the governance uh and in the quality and the completeness of that data all of which turns out are prerequisites for succeeding in the AI world. But there is one more thing. In order for you to truly bring all of that to life for your customers, you have to bring your own data to the models. in a way that you can do deep customization of those models uh so that you truly unlock the value in that data uh for the products and services that you're offering. That kind of is what has led us and a lot of experience over the past uh few years has kind of validated uh the pathway that we're on. uh but uh uh for now I'll leave it there saying like it's it's really that bringing your data to the models and harnessing the full power of AI in that way that has driven our that was our hypothesis and what we've done in the past few years has validated uh that hypothesis. >> So are you bu building ground up or are you using this data with off-the-shelf models because my impression is was a ground up build. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're definitely building ground up. Like I said, first we went all in on the cloud. So we we basically build on top of the cloud. But when it comes to uh building platforms, we we use the the core services on the cloud. The elastic compute uh the elastic storage and all of that and many other um you know baseline services but then we build our platforms on top of that of those core cloud services. So in the case of before AI, in the case of just classical machine learning models, um we built our own uh enterprise platforms for all of our modelers and data scientists across the company to build their models and these platforms work in the context of our data uh platforms and our software platforms uh to unlock you know modeling at scale. Uh we've brought that same thinking. So we've built our own platforms. We've built our own reusable services on top of that platform. Uh and these reusable services are both like patterns that developers across the company can leverage to build AI powered applications. But there are also other important things. I mean we are a bank. We lead with risk management as a central thing. In fact, hey, let me show you. Look at this bottle. I drink water out of the risk tech bottle. Right? And so the um we lead with that. So all kinds of observability and monitoring uh capabilities are built in the platform. So a lot of the concerns that people would have around how to manage these things once we put in a platform we can scale our way through all of those services. So we're building from the ground up. You know we build on top of elastic compute elastic storage GPUs. GPUs as you know are still not elastic. In fact, they're often, you know, availability itself is can be a challenge. But beyond that, we build platform layers, reusable services, reusable capabilities, uh developer facing tools and then also observability and monitoring things and and dashboards so that our uh risk management professionals can make sure things are being done well. >> Okay. So, I definitely want to interrogate this a bit because I'd like to know like why it makes sense to go ahead and develop your own models uh versus just take off the shelf. But I think in order to do this, we probably need to ground a little bit and actually ask you what you've built. So, what have you built at Capital One so far? Can you talk through like the whole stack uh GPUs and infrastructure models, agents, applications like what exactly does Capital One have out there in the market that is built on top of this generative AI uh moment or generative AI technology? I can uh let me uh ground it in a concrete example. Uh Alex um uh you know we are in the wave of agentic AI right now at least in the public perception right um >> and what is what is agentic AI? >> Yeah so agentic uh AI at least the way we look at it is the um is the bringing together of two of the um most powerful forces in generative AI today. One is the power of reasoning and the other is the power of specialization. And so Agentic AI uses reasoning to break complex workflows into simpler tasks and then the power of specialization to execute those uh simpler tasks uh in an accurate robust reliable way and in in an efficient way. And so the bringing together of these two is is really agentic AI. Of course uh there are other aspects to agentic uh which is like it goes from simply answering questions to being able to take certain actions etc. But all of those things depend on these two uh fundamental attributes reasoning and specialization. And this tells you the specialization piece is where um it's super important to bring your data uh to the models right because they have to be specialists in how you do your things. Um now in terms of what we've built what we we started building out our agent infrastructure uh in the spring of 2024 right because we were already seeing that this is going to be the the trend in in how we mobilize AI across the enterprise at scale. Um and so when we started building it uh we said what are some applications that we can like kind of bring to life with this especially because we're such a at such an early stage and as I was saying we lead with risk management uh uh as as kind of a central requirement in any early exploration of anything. So we uh identified this um application in partnership with our uh colleagues in the financial services uh line of business at Capital 1. you know, Capital One has uh one of the largest, if not the largest auto lending uh businesses in the country. And so uh they in addition to providing financial products also provide software products to uh the the dealers uh to auto dealers across the country. And so one of those is uh a a chatbot that interacts with users. And we said, oh, this is a relatively lowrisk but high uh surface area of interactions. So it would allow us to build and demonstrate the power of agentic while agentic infrastructure and architectures while at the same time allowing us to manage and calibrate risk and learn from that interactions and say what are the behaviors of these things. So we actually built this thing called chat concierge you know so phenomenal capital one has this culture of collaboration across uh things. uh when I came in first uh I was like like can we but now I'm like totally inspired by like how there's natural instinct to mobilize across the company to bring things to life. So we worked very closely with our partners and uh the financial services. Uh they built the application uh backed by this agentic uh infrastructure. Chatcon is now available uh at many dealerships uh across the company uh across the country and and so that is like one way but the general takeaway we have had from that Alex is that casting what seems like generative AI problems into agentic problems has allowed us to bridge the gap between the lab and production and what that has done is we've been able to bring in the power of reasoning very specific to the application and the part of specialization which is very specific to the company and how we want to do things. >> So okay so so tell me a little bit about this chat concierge application. Uh is it that I walk into an auto dealer I see a car that I really like. I wonder if I qualify for financing. And so I hop on to chat concierge and tell it uh you know a lot of my attributes like how much I make, where I live, uh you know whether I've gone bankrupt in the past and then [laughter] it will you know tell me tell me whether I qualify for a loan or what does what does it do exactly? >> We live in a very online world as you know Alex today, right? >> So our customer experience doesn't start when we walk into some place. Our customer experience starts when we when we look that business up on the web and and say what do they have. So chat concage starts uh online uh when customers are looking for cars they can say what kind of vehicle are they looking for and cars are so central. One of the things I learned from uh Sanjie who heads our I mean inspiring leader who leads our auto division was how central cars are to people being able to live full uh economic and successful productive lives in the US. It's just incredible. So I think there's a mission focus here on making sure we can you know help people get in their cars. Uh but the experience starts online. Uh so people will go to a dealer website and they'll say these are the kinds of cars I want and it might interact and say okay what's the size of your family what kind of trips this that and then you come all of that experience is now fronted by chat concurge because it can it can actually engage with you in an interactive understanding of your needs. You know, usually we think of it as just what is the customer's intent like in the classical chatbot and then let's go fulfill the intent. We're now in this paradigm where we say we really want to understand your need. Let's interact like what what is it that you really need and then from that we say here are the choices you have and then would you like to schedule an appointment and then and then at some point we hand up. I mean obviously the most satisfying experience always have a human in the loop at some point and so the idea is to make this available at scale to people so that they can figure out what they want and then prepare them so that when they come in uh to the dealership um they've already established a connection with that human and then they're going forward. So that's what in fact um you know after this call I'll have folks send you maybe a link to chatcon you can try it out uh at some at your favorite dealership perhaps >> and so pre obvious question so uh why why is a bank building this is it because um you know you get you help dealers uh you know close more deals and therefore it will lead to uh more financing opportunities uh from the bank side or where does where does the bank uh part of the business uh come into play here. >> You know, I think you know, given the interest in that, Alex, I'd say at some point should definitely sit down and talk with uh Sanjie and understand like the overall uh auto finance business. Great. One of one of my great joys in my job is that I have a lot of line of business uh partners who have all these needs to advance their businesses and then we get to say how are we going to bring the magic of AI or enable and bring the magic of AI to it. But I'll tell you ultimately we are in the business of having very happy customers, >> right? And so to me the motivation I care most about uh Alex is how am I helping to make our end customer most satisfied uh with the services and products we're providing. Uh each lob will have their own specific business plans and why why they're in certain things. Um, but uh from a technology perspective, from where I sit, my job is to make sure I'm enabling all of those plans as best as I can uh especially with a relentless focus on a happy customer. >> Yeah, that's fascinating. So, Capital One in a way becomes a technology clearing house for uh end customers and helps them probably grow their businesses uh through these applications. you you mentioned earlier that what Capital One will do is uh help bring its data uh to the models to be able to sort of uh improve the function of these models overall. So let's go back to this experience again with the chat concierge uh where people are chatting with it uh on dealer websites maybe to find the type of car they want. Where does the data that Capital One has uh come into play on on this experience? So on this it's really you know as I said we started off with a with with an application where kind of the risk surface is relatively small uh and the interaction is large [clears throat] so as you're interacting with the users what are the kinds of questions they ask right um and where where do some of these conversations especially historically where have they been frictionful right etc uh and how would we address them in a more flexible more capable paradigm time that was one um that was one set of data uh that we have. The other set of data of course is actually all the inventories for the cars and what's available etc. So in that sense uh because this was an initial beach head uh for us to prove out uh this capability we were able to bring both of those. There's also an important learning uh aspect to all of this uh Alex which is you know building something in the uh in your engineering environment and then taking it to production is one step of it. Uh what I've come to recognize is that's the first step in the AI stairway to heaven. Right? [laughter] A lot of the action a lot of the learning is actually in ascending through the rest of the staircase. uh you know what are your post-production learnings what do your observability and monitoring tools tell you about where the customer might be experiencing friction that data comes in how do we improve it so while we don't usually get as you might imagine into like uh specific numbers in terms of improvements what I can tell you is the post-p production uh improvements are pretty substantial >> so that's the other part like you talked about why build uh by etc. uh you know in a very different use of the word agent agency you as a company want to have agency in being able to improve every part a lot of these things now these complex uh technical uh architectures and products they're all about different layers of the stack working in tandem with each other right so we are in in my mind past a system integration view of the world where you simply say bring this in here, I bring this in. I I tie them together and and and do it. I I'll give you an example that's very old uh from speech recognition and machine translation like from 20 years 25 years ago when I was very heavily um in the DARPA world you know a lot of my work was sponsored by DARPA programs and one view was you take a speech recognition engine use it to you know transcribe the speech then you bring in a capable machine translation engine and then that takes the output of speech and it translates it. Turns out if the vocabularies of the speech recognition engine and the machine translation engine are not synchronized then you can lose a lot in the gap or even the standardization of the vocabulary terms etc. So you lose a lot of accuracy in that same thing. Now scale it to where you have so many layers in your stack. Like unless all of them are playing out of the same orchestral uh song sheet, it's very hard to create something that's totally in tune and like a pleasing uh orchestra orchestral arrangement. That's why you really need to build because all of these things now they require so much kind of interplay and optimization joint optimization throughout and and here and that and this post-production improvement is actually an example of that like you don't know exactly which part of your stack you need to improve in order to address a particular class of frictions that you observe. But being able to uh change any part of your stack is a tremendously liberating and empowering thing for our product managers, for our engineers, for our scientists because everybody can now mobilize to improve uh improve the the product and the experience. >> Right. So, okay, you mentioned that this is a beach head. Um so, talk a little bit about what the shore is like. Uh what's the ambition here? If this works well, then what comes next? >> The ambition. So what comes next will be really a slow and steady uh again we slope through risk. I mean our ambition is of course to use this as broadly and as effectively as possible uh across a wide range of uh across a wide range of um application areas. But um our initial sets of ambitions around these things are how do we empower our associates to deliver kind of the best uh services we can to our customers. One of the uh first applications for example actually the first application we devel start started developing back in uh 2023 uh was agent assist right we have a lot of uh uh customer servicing um interactions that happen on a daily basis and as you know when you call in there's always a little bit of a wait time right um and and when you call in to the call center and you've been waiting for the agent And the human agent who picks up the call is very aware of the fact that you've been uh you've been waiting and that you're in a heightened state of you know anticipation of a quick and correct answer. And so but then they have to deal with the systems they have at the time to find the answers. Sometimes the answers come from multiple different sources. They have to synthesize the answer and and give it to you. And then you know we being customers and you know impatient are often like you know I need the answer quickly. uh what happens therefore is if we can build AI systems that reduce the cognitive burden on the human agent at that time, right? Not only does it translate to faster and more accurate responses to the customer, it also greatly improves the lived experience of our human agents, right? Who are the front line of our interactions with our customers. So now when we started off we built an initial version that works in certain way but when we look at how much more power casting these uh casting these problems as agentic problems is giving us uh we are already starting to see how we're able to improve the performance of those things for human agents and so there's just like the other example I would say is software right uh so much of our you know we are a tech company like I said you know at heart uh and so uh our software uh developers are going to be uh are already benefiting from generative AI but that's going to be uh another uh big uh philillip uh to our work and we live in this world where our ideas and our aspirations often exceed our capacity to execute and deliver on them in any finite amount of time. So we are very excited about the fact that all of these things will unlock the speed with which we're able to develop and deliver things uh to to and as I said again to our customers. uh and so um I think this will uh this will impact uh uh every one of us uh um and and our focus is on making sure that I've always felt one of the noble aims of AI Alex is to transfer the cognitive burden from the human to the system at a time when the human feels that burden to be most heavy and I think the more I think about AI I think the next few years we're going have like a real blast like bringing that power of AI to uh to all of our uh associates uh at Capital One. >> Definitely. Okay. So, let's talk a little bit more about the architecture here. Uh I just want to double tap on this one more time. Uh so again going back to be able to build this experience that you've built. Uh you have started with open source and then customized it, brought the data in. uh what's the advantage of doing that versus using the off-the-shelf models because you know in in my conversations with some of the AI lab leaders um like Dario from anthropic something that he said is like you know we are starting to um mirror open source in a way where that customization is possible and the bringing the data in is possible with our our off-the-shelf models meaning claw enthropic. So why go open source and customize? Is it just a greater degree of control or what do you get there? >> Well, I mean when we say greater degree of control, we're actually saying a greater ability to improve performance. It's it's not control for control's sake in that sense. It's really about the performance. >> Uh let's go back to chat concurge for for a moment, right? Like >> terms of it. What are the different uh steps that like something like chat concurge uh goes through, right? um even simple interactions. You want to confirm u the needs with the user. You then want to simulate uh the plan that you're going to work against. You want to validate that plan, make sure that it's it's right, etc. Uh each one of these steps um is a combination of both the the data that is required to improve the execution of the of the step, but also uh kind of the reasoning capability and the interaction with the user. How does the business want to execute it? You may have certain things that you say if these happen I want this to be this to go to my assoc to my human in the loop uh in that thing in other some other people may have different things. So there's a fair bit of customization both of the UX and of the uh performance itself, right? Uh in this context, uh what are things we care? One of the things we care about most is speed or latency, right? Uh you know this from your favorite home assistant that you use. If it takes 3 seconds to respond to you, it's way less satisfying than it takes 2 seconds to respond to you, which is way less satisfying than if it takes a second to respond to you. We just like we like the speed of that interaction uh and and and it's a big driver of customer satisfaction. So if we want to improve the speed of these things, you have to do things like distillation, make these models. What one of the other benefits of specialization is the models can be made much more compact to deliver the same uh kind of performance uh uh uh relative to the size of the model, right? because now they're specialized, which means they can run much uh faster, which means overall not only do you get uh efficiency, you also get a much more satisfying experience uh for the associate or for the uh for the customer. These kinds of things right now, at least what we're finding are much more and I don't think we're the only ones uh finding it. What we're finding is these are much more doable uh by anchoring on open source models and then bringing your data to these models in a very deep uh customization uh and then getting the full benefit of it. There will be areas for example like software development right where there is so much horizontal aspect to it terms of how it is practiced across the world. uh where I do think um uh these other approaches like you know where what you bring to that is the context of your software environment perhaps etc at least for now and so uh some of these closed source models with their amazing ability to consume the right context etc for certain tasks uh I think will will will continue to provide a lot of value uh it's just that as it gets into every area that we're interacting with uh Alex I think there's going to be room for almost every paradigm to contribute and but in our area what we're finding is building on open source bringing our data very close to the models uh etc is what's uh making a difference between and we constantly benchmark I mean while we build uh uh you know rather than buy in many cases uh we don't do that in a vacuum >> we're constantly looking for what is the best way to do something and and right now all of our experiments are pointing us in this direction. >> Do you have an open source model that you favor? >> No. Uh we um um we actually use more than one uh depending on the application. Again, like I said, we have this benchmarking. >> So we take a look at these models um and I mean we favor US-based models uh uh in in general. Uh but beyond that we're constantly looking uh for which model provides the best tradeoff for different uh classes of applications. At the same time uh we're not like a place that's going to have every model in the world uh supported but we do borrow heavily from multiple open source models. >> Fascinating. I mean I'm about to have Mr. come in studio and uh and one of the things that I've been thinking about is you know when this deepseek moment happened which it was like okay open source had not exceeded the closed source models but it seemed like it had caught up to the point where people started to take it really seriously and back then something that uh people were telling me was that um that that opensource was was going to be at par because instead of having open AI working on its own anthropic working on its own. You had this whole community of open source effectively working together uh uh to build on each other's innovations and and uh and they would soon exceed uh the closed models. Uh I don't know if that's happened yet and I'm curious to hear your perspective on sort of where what the state of open source is because as I'm thinking through this it's like okay well uh DeepSeek happened uh you know at the beginning of 2025 we're at the end here and I'm curious what the race looks like. >> Yeah I think um there are there's more than one race going on. Uh Alex, I think part of it is we would like it all to be one race, right? like the best model on some benchmarks. But as you know uh even the benchmarks that were being that have been used in some sense continue to be used to measure the performance of these models are themselves uh in question because what happens is even the people developing these models they see them improve on these benchmarks then they put it out there and the real world is like meh right was uh was that a difference right and so what is one of the challenge anytime you have a race right unless you have a very clear metric that correlates to our real world perception uh of of that experience. It's it's it's hard to determine progress. The race that we are in is to build the best possible uh uh enterprise AI solutions that enable the most capable enterprise AI products and services that are then provided to our associates and our customers. So when we look at it from that race, it's no longer just about the models alone. It's the entirety of the stack, right? You've heard this now. Uh a lot of value that's unlocked also comes from your ability to consume the right context at the right time, right? Which is why you're seeing the emergence of all of these protocols, etc. as well. But one of the best ways to bring the right context to the models is actually to do a deep customization of the models. Not all context is dynamic. >> A lot of context is also you know changes at a much slower rate. That context being baked into the model makes the models much more capable to start with. Then when we when you bring your dynamic enterprise content to it, you already have somebody it's it's really Alex like um u you know somebody who's been working uh at um at a particular company take capital one for a while when they have to do a new task there they have learned a lot about how things operate and the styles in which we might work etc. And then they bring that to the new context and they're much more capable. it it's not very different from that in in in how we see this when the model is is is deeply customized with more and more of our data and how we do things and many different things and and we've seen this in the past with models when you train the same model to do more tasks it turns out it becomes better at every task in some ways it's it's kind of an interesting uh thing is the same here when we train it to do more and customize it to do more and more of our task it kind of learns more and more about uh [clears throat] capital one and then when we bring new context to it. So in in that uh in that sense um we take a a full stack models are a pretty critical and you know foundational element uh of that of that stack. Uh but they're not the only element of that stack. >> Oh yeah. Oh that makes a lot of sense. All right. A couple more for you. Um >> AI pilots. uh you've you've run a couple and look there there's there's some disputes about uh the percentage that work or not. I mean there was that MIT study that said 95% fail. I don't fully believe that. Uh but but I but the idea that the majority of pilots don't get out into production uh certainly resonates with me in terms of what I've heard. So talk a little bit about what is what like what helps an AI pilot get out into production? what makes it uh profitable or what makes it successful once it's there. >> Yeah, you know, maybe one way to look at it is I mean it it doesn't first let me just say it doesn't align with our experience by the way. Uh but again going back to uh going back to our history uh we have been invested in tech but especially in AI and machine learning through multiple generations of machine learning and so through that you learn certain uh approaches methodologies and practices how to qualify which use cases are worth pursuing up front what might take more development etc. So I do think your probability of success is conditioned by the preparation you've had uh to engage in something. Uh it's like I I don't know I you know I've played fair bit of you know street cricket growing up that hasn't really prepared me uh for American football. >> Okay. >> Little different sport. >> Yeah. You can say yeah I know I love games. I love playing. Uh but then I go into football I'm like wait what are the rules and what you know and so it's like it's it's in that same sense I say how long have you been preparing uh uh for this world what what are your it's beyond just technology what are your processes like what is the talent that you have right this is a this is a very 360 game in a way uh you know it's a very multi-disiplinary game you need awesome uh product managers you You need awesome engineers. You need awesome scientists. You need awesome business thinkers, right? You need awesome awesome risk management people who are not just like, you know, I understand risk, but they're also learning new things and saying, how do I apply my experience of risk to this emerging area? We're blessed with a collection of talents across all of these things that allow us to. So I recognize that that's kind of a little bit of a privileged uh position I live in. But acknowledging all of that, I'll still say our experience is that when you follow the right thought process, you surface the use cases, you analyze the readiness to uh develop those use, you have a lot of qualifying steps along the way and people have to have an open conversation that kind of also relies on trust between the constituents and say we find we can take you know I without getting a number I'd say that's about as far away from our experience as it could be the that study that that would that that you're that you're talking about. Um, but I really think it's about uh about uh uh the preparation uh that you have um uh to to engage in in the game if you will. >> Yeah. All right. Last question for you. So, you were on the ground like I mentioned in the in our opening uh with Amazon Alexa uh at the very beginning there. Um just tell us a little bit about what it's been like watching AI from there to where it is today and where do you think it's heading? >> Yeah. Uh Alex, if it's okay, I'll take a further step back. >> Sure. because I do think uh we have to acknowledge uh the tremendous contribution of DARPA and the community that it sponsored through decades of its existence cuz almost all of the foundational work in AI and machine learning uh huge fraction of it has happened with DARPA sponsorship and so I having spent a lot of my life in in a world that was that benefited from DARPA I want to acknowledge it whether it's speech recognition machine translation even AI you know DARPO is investing an explainable AI before other folks were talking about it. DARPA was talking about trustworthy AI before um other folks. So I think there's that part to be acknowledged. What I've seen though as a trend and especially where I think the work at Alexa was kind of um uh took it to a new level at the time that it um that it arrived was we were building all these component technologies one at a time and we're trying to put them together in certain applications you know but the scale at which it it came into a retail experience in everybody's home at one time and and became kind of a consumer consumer AI that not just adults but children could interact with, right? That was the magical transformation at the time that it happened, right? Which is, you know, I I used to see my daughters like uh like you know they have their friends over and and they're like play this song and play that song and then this thing and then there's a competition I can make a change to this song etc. that that sense that it created that I can talk to my environment, it talks back to me or it responds to me that to me is is the real uh was was the real magic. Uh I had a you know fantastic time uh both in my DARPA world. Actually every I was at USC for a while uh University of Southern California. Fantastic fantastic learning experiences there too. Uh and now um uh you know Amazon and then Capital One. Each of these experiences has kind of been super satisfying uh in its own way. Um and um Alex, you know, I have to say uh if you want to contribute to changing [clears throat] the future of um uh AI and finance and finance itself and you want to be part of the world's best AI organization in finance, please come join us. >> Okay. And so if people are interested in learning more about uh Capital 1's AI efforts or actually deciding to to join the effort, where where do they go? >> Uh we maintain a pretty uh um solid uh website presence that talks about a lot of our AI work. Uh so I would say go to our AI blogs and AI uh part of our website. Uh it's very do a simple Google search. Uh because you know website URLs can change. I would simply say go do a search uh web search uh capital one AI uh and then you will see uh a lot of our work um and [clears throat] um and and you know you have any questions there's contact information there reach out uh and there's always LinkedIn >> that's right well Prem look fascinating stuff it is wild to see how far uh you've gone in in building uh from the ground up and uh and and specifically outlining why you've taken that path as opposed to uh buying off the shelf has been been really fascinating for me. A lot of ways to do this, but I think that uh it's just really [music] interesting to see uh your path and I'm looking forward to learning more about what you have coming down the pike. So, thank you again. >> No, uh thank you uh Alex. Lot of uh thoughtprovoking questions there and love this interaction. >> Yes, likewise. All right, everybody. Uh thank you to Prem. Thank you uh to you all for watching and we will be back uh on the feed with another video shortly. Thanks again and we'll see you next time.