Software In Shambles, OpenAI vs. Anthropic Super Brawl, Amazon’s Struggles

Channel: Alex Kantrowitz

Published at: 2026-02-09

YouTube video id: WVvD5dv6sMY

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVvD5dv6sMY

Software stocks tank as the market
starts [music] to believe the AI story.
Anthropic and OpenAI go at it in the
Super Bowl. And Amazon spending freaks
out investors. That's coming up on a Big
Technology Podcast Friday edition right
after this.
Welcome to Big Technology Podcast Friday
edition where we break down the news in
our traditional cool-headed and nuanced
format. We have a big show for you
today. We're going to talk all about
what's going on with software. [music]
Every software company seems to be in
the middle of some sort of wipeout on
Wall Street. We're going to investigate
[music]
whether AI is actually going to do what
investors fear it will do to software.
Also, we're going to talk about this
OpenAI and Anthropic fight over
Anthropic's Super Bowl ad. And then of
course, Amazon [music] fell uh
significantly. So, we'll talk about
what's going on with the company on that
front [music] and whether the market is
getting it wrong. Joining us as always
on Fridays to do it is Ranjan Roy of
Margins. [music] Ranjan, welcome.
I leave you guys alone for a week and
you just kill off the entire software
industry.
I missed you last week. This is I mean,
I'm excited [music] to get into this cuz
this is everything I've been talking
about now for like 6 7 months. It's
happening.
Okay. So, uh as a note, we've gone from
worries that AI was a bubble to now the
at least in the market. Now the market
is reflecting the chance that AI is
really going to work. Uh and eventually
wipe out software. This is from
Bloomberg. Trillion-dollar tech wipeout
is nears all stocks in AI's path. There
have been many AI-driven sell-offs in
the 3 years since ChatGPT burst into the
mainstream. Nothing though quite rivals
the route rippling through stock and
credit markets this week. In the span of
2 days, hundreds of billions of dollars
were wiped off the value of stocks,
bonds, and loans of companies big and
small across Silicon Valley. Software
stocks were at the epicenter plunging so
much that the values of those tracked in
an iShares ETF has now dropped almost 1
trillion over the past 7 days. Also,
more than 17.7 billion of US tech
company loans in a Bloomberg index
dropped to a distressing to distressed
trade trading levels during the past few
four weeks. The drubbing, unlike many
previous ones, was triggered not by
fears of a bubble, but rather concern
that AI is on the verge of supplanting
the business models of a wide swath of
companies that doomsayers have long
predicted were at risk. I don't
understand, Rajan, can you explain a
little bit why all of a sudden the
market's starting to believe that AI is
going to work and it's going to wipe out
software? What's going on here? Okay, so
this is like square in line with what
I've been talking about for I think
September we started talking about it.
Again, this idea of autonomous knowledge
work. The idea that
the work that software, traditional SaaS
products did, actually now AI can do and
just completely disintermediate SaaS.
So, like you take a Salesforce, for
example, where is the value in a
Salesforce? It's a database, but is it
just that user interface that allows
people to kind of find the information
or track the information or look at a
dashboard that tells them what they need
to do? AI is really good at creating
that entire layer and making it
completely customized to the user. Like
you take an Adobe,
uh I mean so much of the work that
they're doing now, whether it's ChatGPT
or Gemini on the what Photoshop used to
do or InDesign used to do, like all
those kind of pieces of work are exactly
what AI is really good at replacing. So,
at that point you just have so much of
traditional software
can just be looked at as like a UI over
a database. That's what's happening
right now and the market is finally
actually coming to that realization. I
have people who have not like I have
friends in finance the finance industry
asking so many questions about this
right now because
it's just becoming clear that it just
changes the way so many of these
companies you have to think about.
Okay, so this is from the Wall Street
Journal. The The Wall Street Journal
looking at this writes, "Tools made by
such companies as Workday, monday.com,
and Adobe have become the digital
backbone of much of corporate America.
These tools though carry out
increasingly complex user requests for
hours and they've offered a preview,
these AI tools, and they've offered a
preview of of the threat sophisticated
AI models pose to entire company. The
result, a broader business reckoning
that has left corporate leaders asking
what it will mean when an AI system can
easily replicate expertise developed
over a lifetime of coding in or in the
case of companies years or or in the
case of companies years of corporate
development." Here's an analyst with
well, tech so so actually now we'll get
back to that in a moment. That's legal
tech.
Just just explain this to me.
>> Okay.
I sort of get it. You know, we had like
Deirdre Bosa who's a CNBC anchor was
able to write code a instance of
monday.com personalized for her use
case. Um
you know, maybe that's going to be what
what people do, but how does something
like a Workday, monday.com, and Adobe
get disintermediated? I mean, Adobe for
instance is completely different than
these like workplace database softwares.
Okay, so let let's take monday cuz
that's like a good example of that
entry-level And explain what it is. a
first of all, monday.com, you know, like
entire project and task management suite
of software.
But what happens and again, this is so
directly in my day-to-day life both
professionally, but also like even in
the past personally like any kind of
task and project management tools
it's supposed to offer this like highly
collaborative way everyone works
together and you kind of like accelerate
and amplify projects. In reality, people
just use it to track tasks and like at a
really basic level. So much of this
software and it's it's not cheap. These
tools are not cheap and I'm going to get
more into that, but
at that point, being able to the more AI
starts to enter your workflow,
then using if AI is going to generate a
marketing brief, right now people sit
there and like spend hours creating
tasks from that. Like how many different
specs for a meta ad do I have to create?
I mean I now enter that into monday.com.
That's going to tell someone what they
have to do. They're going to go into it
and then everyone is paying monday.com
for this.
Like that you don't need that system to
do that kind of work anymore. Like
again,
if you're vibe coding a task management
app like Debora did, sure you can, but
even in these organizations like you can
create pretty standard software to track
that task that's taking place. But then
a bigger thing that I think is going to
happen is
a lot of that work, a lot of those tasks
that were being created, agents are
going to do. At which point you don't
need you never needed some you don't
need someone to actually enter tasks
manually and so another person could
look at it and click check this is done.
You know, like it totally removes the
need for that kind of software. I can
get into work day, Adobe and you
individually, but I think that like
project and task management is a perfect
example of
of like what we're talking about here.
Right. And so the question is like is
this the fact that people can build
software by vibe coding it or is it
something else completely? Something Sam
Altman said this week was was pretty
interesting. He said every company is
now an API company now whether they want
to be or or
Yeah, I I you got it. You got it. Like
there's two layers to this whole
question. Yeah, can you build it
yourself? And I get there's a lot of
pushback in terms of like is it like
Anthropic uses Workday. So they have not
vibe coded their own Workday HR
management software because there's like
a certain cost-benefit analysis everyone
will be doing. So I think there's step
one is at what point do I pay a lot of
money to a software that isn't that
Vivaldi isn't worth the cost? And I
think those conversations and questions
are all going to be happening now and in
the next 6 to 12 months.
Then you get into like can we just build
it ourselves? But then you get into the
next bigger question,
do we need it in an increasingly agentic
world and an increasingly like with a
lot of this work is being done by
autonomous knowledge workers, agents,
the Claude co-works of the world? Um
like it it it changes the need for do
you even need a lot of these things? So
I think it's going to be hitting these
companies at every level along the way.
Well, here's the thing. You know, I
think that these software what this
software does is going to be needed. And
I also think that like
maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves
with like all of like how long it will
take for this agentic stuff to roll out.
Again, companies are slow, workflows are
slow. Um even if the technology is
there, it's going to take, you know,
probably years to get there.
But here's the thing. And and I think
this is really where where we get where
we get to, right? Is that we're going to
have
um
software companies building their own
bots.
And then we're going to have the big
companies building their own bots.
And the question and that's a kind of
what I think Sam was referencing. Is do
you end up subsumed into, let's say, a
ChatGPT or Claude?
Um or do you get people to use your own
bot? Like let's say you're at
monday.com, are you going to get people
to use your chatbot versus have all this
stuff basically accessed by, let's say a
chat GPT, and then brought into
someone's home screen there. No, this is
Yeah, go ahead, Ranjan. Yeah, it's a
it's a good question. I think these
companies are going to be defending
their data sets. Like monday.com's going
to be like, "Don't come in and take all
of my task data and put it into your
workflow."
So, I think I I think it's a good point
that they're going to be
the trying to fight back against it,
which I think will increase
the like actually, I think that will end
up accelerating people's decisions to
try to move away from a lot of these
tools cuz like they're going to fight
for it, but it just doesn't make sense
in the grand scheme of things.
So, on Wednesday, up this upcoming
Wednesday, we're going to have Frank
Ramaswamy, the CEO of Snowflake, come
on. And it's like the perfectly timed
moment to have someone like him come on
and we talk about it. And and I'll just
preview it a little bit. I mean,
basically, like, you know, chat GPT is
going to try to get all that slow
Snowflake data some to be something that
you access within that main chat GPT
interface.
And Snowflake is going to have to build
to defend against that. And, you know,
it's ultimately going to be up to the
customers. Like, I don't think And this
is I think Frank has the right strategy
here. He's going to let the customers
decide. Um and and ultimately, you can't
really If this is what they want, you
can't really fight it. And so, that's
sort of what I think is bringing us into
this moment here. It's not that software
is going to go away.
And I think Bret Taylor, when he was on
a couple weeks ago, put this really
well. It's the fact that investors are
now uncertain about what's going to
happen,
um that they are backing away from these
stocks. So, whereas it might look like
it's over for stock for software
companies, um
I don't think that's the case at all.
But, what I will say is it's clear that
investors aren't as certain about the
future as they were, you know, a year
ago, and they're getting they're
starting to say, well, are they going to
access this company's software, you
know, in somebody else's interface? Will
they just become an input? And that's
why you're seeing this runaway from the
software stocks.
Yeah, I I think you captured it. And
also, I think Snowflake is very
interestingly positioned here cuz I
think a lot of where we're going to be
going is you have your kind of database
of a Snowflake or a Databricks or
BigQuery, and then the AI lives on top
of it. That's the kind of stuff that I'm
working on like at Writer and and we're
seeing Claude and OpenAI Enterprise all
moving in that direction. But I think
like because we know all stock prices
are perfectly rational encapsulation of
calculating future cash flow. I mean,
uh I'm obviously sarcastic there, but
but in reality, like it it's true that
right now, I think even if you're not
going to rip out Workday and Salesforce
tomorrow,
the amount that these companies charge
customers, people are going to have to
question it. Like and especially when
you're thinking of it from as a stock,
not even as an individual like customer,
the idea that they're going to continue
growth
when their revenue is going to be
questioned at the when their like
pricing is going to be questioned by
every single customer, it's tough. Like
like you Stocks are supposed to reflect
future growth opportunities. And I think
reasonably, like whether it's perfect or
not, they do. And if you're thinking
about growth, it there I don't see what
the story is.
Right. And software does get a higher
multiple because of that potential
future growth. The fact that like
the capital and the potential upside is
not necessarily linked. But now software
firms are starting to look a lot more
like the rest of the economy. This is
from Liz Thomas, who's a financial
watcher. Software's forward 12-month PE,
and I'm going to speak about this with
Sridhar, but let's talk about it now.
The software's forward 12-month PE is
compressed from 33.1 to 23.2X.
Multiple contraction of 30%, and
evaluations are now approaching the 2022
levels. That's a pretty significant
move, Ranjan. Wouldn't you agree? I
mean, that is big. Yeah, that's a you're
like the entire I think it it the
biggest takeaway right now is like
everyone thought of software to have
kind of like a few fundamental truths to
it for many years now, and that's kind
of like, you know, like
basically increasingly scaling marginal
returns that you invest initially, but
actually distributing software is
essentially cost zero. So, like and
incredibly val- increasingly valuable,
especially over the last 15 years. So,
that's where you get it was treated
differently than the rest of the
economy. It just had different
economics, and I genuinely think that's
fundamentally changed. And we we've
talked about this a lot, like an AI
company, we don't even know what the
economics really are of them in terms of
like what it costs to operate. The more
people use it, LLMs don't behave like
traditional software in terms of it like
expense structure. So, so yeah, I think
whatever software looked like for the
last 15 to 20 years is different now.
But are you sure this isn't an
overreaction because we have yet to talk
about the cause for what tanked all
these software stocks. And that is that
Anthropic had this um I'll just read it.
This is from Business Insider.
Anthropic's latest AI tool is hammering
legal software stocks. So, it was a
legal tool. Anthropic recently rolled
out a new plugin for its Claude co-work
AI agent that can perform several
clerical tasks, including tracking
compliance, and reviewing legal
documents. As far as AI updates go it
didn't make much of a splash outside the
legal space when it was rolled out
Friday. However, it has triggered a
sell-off among software and publishing
stocks with ties to the legal industry
and this was in the beginning of the
week the news on two on Tuesday. Walter
Kluwer went down 13% Relx PLC went down
15.8%
LegalZoom down 18% Thomson Reuters down
19% the worst day in the company's
history.
Um
I mean come on like Harvey was out there
already it hasn't upended legal software
so Anthropic releases one plugin and all
of a sudden the software industry is
dead. I mean that does seem like a bit
of a strong move from the market. Okay,
but have you used LegalZoom? You are a
independent entrepreneur. I was. Have
you used the LegalZoom type of tools
before? I'm sure I've been in it at some
point. Yeah, like anyone who has used
those and I'm hoping you're not going to
say like the CEO of LegalZoom is the
next guest on the show after It'd be
great to have them we would welcome them
on. Um but uh like these tools don't
provide a ton of value. They like
answered really specific
problems and that was like software used
to be take one really specific problem
own it like charge people a lot of money
to deliver relative value but that's the
kind of stuff that like going through
and structuring a basic legal document
AI is really good at so like I think
that actually tells the story of what's
happening now better than even the
monday.com example like like when you
have there was almost like value in that
kind of monopoly right? There's and now
like you just create really narrowly
focused software and then charge a ton
of money for it and people will still
pay you that model is more dead than
anything.
You know one of the interesting lines
that we're picking up here is there was
a time where
robotic process automation was the hot
new thing in software.
And that wasn't, you know, necessarily
AI. It wasn't AI. It was like sort of
hard coded ways to teach a computer the
ways to use your computer so you didn't
have to do these menial tasks. And one
of the things that made it so
interesting was
that it stitched together a lot of these
broken parts of software. Like that's
one of the things I think we should
point out here and I think you really
hit on it is that software is imperfect.
And it kind of got away because it beat
Excel.
It got away with it and people were
talking about like these duct tape ways
to stitch together software programs and
if they could ever do that it would be a
very big market opportunity.
And now that has potentially arrived
just with LLMs and not in the robotic
process automation way that we imagine.
Well, hold on. One thing I want to kind
of really get across and I I see this
that like and cuz remember and this is I
fault the industry for how Agentyc was
talked about is like a few months ago
even now many of the conversations I
have people still think of Agentyc as
take an existing process
and just add some AI to it. Like but you
basically recreate that process with AI.
Like
the big change and difference in any
like this is a whole cloud code. You
didn't you're you're no longer like
using AI to generate individual bits of
code. You're just reinventing the entire
process. You're like, what do I actually
want an outcome to be? Go do it. And I
think that's the in any kind of
knowledge work. So you take a legal
zoom, like now you don't even care about
what that process is. You just say I
need a document that does this.
Go out and research all the different
types of reference documents and laws.
Here's my information. Figure out what
you need for me and create the document.
So, so like yeah, I think
the promise is very clear more and more.
I agree. It's going to take time. Like
it's not happening tomorrow. I think the
stock market
reaction is interesting cuz it feels
like everyone is just getting this all
at once.
Yeah, Ranjan. Okay, so you're clearly a
believer in in this.
Uh why don't you give like the best
steel man argument in terms of like how
why this might not work? Don't tapping
out on this one. Like where is the
vulnerability that you're not seeing and
we're not seeing? I I think the Who
should I Who should I
be Should I be monday.com here or
LegalZoom or
>> run with either of those. All right. All
right. I think
the value in those tools
there's wasn't is and you I mean you
brought it up. Like companies are slow.
The value in those tools was never about
the UI or the actual ease of use cuz
God, a lot of these tools are brutal to
use is literally just having a safe
compliant place for people to enter
data. So like when people say it's just
a dumb database and AI is going to be a
layer over it that there actually is
value in them being that dumb structured
database. And then they're going to be
able to fight and hold on for a bit. I
think like
people It's true. People are not going
to rip them out anytime soon. Whether
they can grow and stuff
we'll see, but
they they have a They're not going away
without a fight, I'm sure.
This is definitely This is something
that Bret Taylor brought up when we
spoke uh
couple weeks ago. And Ben Thompson also
writes about this. He says writing the
original app is just the beginning.
There is maintenance, security patches,
features, new features, changing
standards. Uh writing an app is a
commitment to a never-ending journey. A
journey to return to the original point
uh which that has nothing to do with the
company's core competency, right?
Something something close to what you
were saying. And then he says, "And
selling software isn't just about
selling code. There is support. There is
compliance. There are integrations with
other software. The list of what is
actually valuable goes far beyond code.
This is why companies don't purely
open-source software. They don't want
code, they want a product and everything
that entails."
Would you say that that's basically the
biggest counterargument against this?
And if you're a bull on like today's
software industry,
you kind of like hold on to that and
imagine that they're going to be able to
build their their chatbots or agents
uh you know, fast enough. So, I think
I've I've been thinking about this a lot
like
it even though I tried to take the steel
man position for a monday.com like I
really don't see the prices they charge
relative to the value. I think what
could be hap- happen is maybe there's
like studios of AI-native developers
that actually create just tons and tons
of new software that's highly customized
and they do the management and they do
the like versus if you're like a I don't
know, like a paint distributor, you're
not going to buy code your own CRM and
there's there's companies that do that
but just do it a lot cheaper and at a
different type of scale and model than
these these large-size SaaS companies.
So, I think like yeah.
Oh, no. Dude,
>> What's going to be interesting is that
uh we're not going to be 100% sure who's
going to use these software platforms.
And that's kind of like where it you
know, it gets gets interesting and we
talked about that a little bit. This is
going back to Thompson. Uh human will be
be using uh software at least for a
while but increasingly so will agents.
What isn't clear What isn't clear is who
will be creating the agents. I expect
every SaaS app have their own agent but
that agent will be definitely
definitionally bound by the borders of
the application. Different horizontal
players meanwhile will be making a play
to cover broader expanses of the
business with the promises of working
across multiple apps. So, I think this
is interesting, right? Like, if you
could get, let's say, a chat GPT
uh to a point where it's good enough to
use your monday.com and bring that data
into, let's say, a chat GPT pulse, um
you might get all the benefits of the
monday.com, but just not having to use
monday.com. And then, you know,
effectively, you don't become a software
program, you become a custodian of a
database with better compliance.
That's it. You got it. I mean, that
that's the that's the big debate, and if
that's the future here, then that's
exactly what it can look like, and then
slowly, you start to ask yourself, do I
need to pay a lot of money for someone
to just enter a task into this one
system that's just going to be accessed
and thought about it in a completely
different system.
And that's that's the threat.
>> And time will tell, right? But, I think
one of the important things here is this
is a shift in the market. Uh a couple
months ago, I was watching Josh Brown on
uh the Halftime Report earlier this week
on CNBC, and he made a great point. He
said, "Listen, the market in just a
couple months has gone from, is this a
bubble? to AI is going to work so well
that software is dead." It really has
happened in, like, what? Like, less than
a half a year.
It's very interesting to see that shift.
>> I think what
I think Claude code is at the the basis
of it is is enough people, and again,
I've brought this up for months now.
Like, I have seen the power of
autonomous knowledge work. Claude code
introduced basically autonomous coding,
and but that that shift in mentality of
wait, AI can actually do things, go off
and work. Like, it really changes the
way you look at it when you're really
thinking of it as like a person or a
team going and doing work for you. Uh
and then suddenly, I think the more
people have seen it with their own eyes
or done something, that's where all
these light bulbs start going off.
Couple of things before we move off the
subject. This is from Derek Thompson.
For me, the odds that AI is a bubble
declined significantly in the last 3
weeks, and the odds that we're actually
quite under built for the necessary
levels of inference and usage went
significantly up in this period.
Basically, I think AI is going to become
the home screen of a ludicrously high
percentage of white-collar workers in
the next 2 years, and parallel agents
will be deployed in the battlefield of
knowledge work at downright Soviet
levels.
Your response, that seems like a Ranjan
take right there. I like I like that
one. I think I mean, this is what I am
seeing
firsthand. Like I I mean, that
autonomous knowledge work, white-collar
work, that's the stuff that's going to
get completely disrupted and seeing it
firsthand, but I think
he makes one point there that I I
actually would push back on.
I
Anyone listening right now can hear like
how convinced I am that this is going to
happen.
Now, what does that actually mean for
any of the players involved, whether
it's
OpenAI or Anthropic or my company
Writer? Like
I have no idea how this plays out. I
mean, like the economics, no one has
figured out like are they going to IPO?
Can OpenAI make money? Do they like are
they going to win any of these
individual big bets that they're taking?
Is Google going to kill everyone? Like I
actually think the the the landscape is
more
uncertain than ever. While I think like
at a high level, this is going to be the
future undoubtedly, it's actually
it's even muddier than ever how this
plays out. That's right. I think we
still don't quite know who gets the
value. Is it the foundational model
builders? Is it the chip makers? Is it
the application layer? Is it the
consultants? Right? And I think that's
why
>> Yeah. Or nobody. Yeah, or does every
everything gets so cheap?
Yeah, if it gets everything. No, the AI
just codes it vibe codes it itself and
it removes the work and puts us all out
of a job anyways. Yeah, who knows?
>> Look, if it's powerful enough to just
remove the job then somebody's going to
get value there. Like there will be
value to be found. Yeah. Yeah, but I
think that's still a question. But I
think that's why we're seeing just to go
back to that's why we're seeing the
volatility in software. That's why we're
seeing the volatility in big tech. Every
time there's like a number that's
slightly off the market like again they
they're tanking Amazon stock today which
we can get to even though the market by
the way the market's rebounded nicely.
Dow just hit 50k again. So, but because
of this uncertainty of who gets the
value we're just going to be living in
this moment of volatility for a while.
I'm going to ask you and we don't make
forward-looking statements on this show,
but do you think so again yeah
there was like fear gripping the market
especially in software the last month
has been brutal.
Do you think looking at today
the rebound do you think we're
a month from now 2 months from now do
you think we're higher or lower across
kind of like these software stocks that
we're we're generally talking about?
Yeah, again this is not investment
advice. I think we're higher. I really
do. I think that like it's easy to tell
yourself a story of what's going to
happen. It's harder to really envision
all of the bureaucracy that has to sort
of embrace it for that change to
actually go through.
Yeah. No, that's what that's what I
think it's it's it's worth
looking at. I think the most important
thing is going to be in these
conversations in the it's yeah the
directional
guidance the kind of directional like
renewal rates all these kind of things
with these companies to see is this
really happening right now or is this
something that
we can see will happen eventually, but
is not happening anytime soon.
Here's one more stat from Dylan Patel,
the founder of semi-analysis. 4% of
GitHub public commits are being authored
by Claude code right now. At the current
trajectory, we believe that Claude code
will be 20% plus of all daily commits by
the end of 2026. While you blinked, AI
consumed all of software development.
Yeah, that I'm telling you I that was my
in December, that was my prediction for
2026 on this show that what happened in
software development is going to happen
in knowledge work this year.
End of this year,
it's happening.
Maybe Dario was right after all.
Everybody laughed at his prediction that
50% of entry-level work was going to be
gone.
Actually,
it it's a good point. I mean, I've
really been thinking about this a lot.
Like, to me, I actually like what it
feels like when you're working in this
way is that you're basically a manager.
You're managing all these different
agents to do different type of work. So,
like, you start to realize managerial
skills become more important than ever.
So, like, who gets displaced and when
and how is going to be a really
interesting thing. Is it like if you're
entry-level but AI-native,
are you going to be better positioned or
if you're kind of older and a manager
but you know how to delegate work, are
you going to be better? I don't know.
It's going to be That's another whole
direction. It's going to be interesting
to see how it plays out.
Are you saying that the future of work
is just going to be being in a chatbot
window being like, "Is it ready yet?
How's it looking? How's it looking?
Almost there? That's that's the future
of work." It's not even chatbot though.
Like, that's why I think I on the Sierra
episode with Bret Taylor, I was hearing
you'd said chatbot. I think it's Chat's
the UI right now, but like maybe I'm
using my genetic monday.com to manage
tasks and I see that they were completed
by my agents and then I'm like, "Okay,
I'm going to assign some other tasks."
Like, but yeah, I think that's that's
going to be part of what you do for
work.
We wake up.
>> Okay.
Is Is my podcast prep ready?
Oh god.
I mean, it's already useful for that.
All right.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> speaking of Dario, we have a war going
on between him and Sam Altman
uh in the most unlikely of battlefields,
shall we say, the Super Bowl. Uh two
companies with ads, not dueling. Open
AI's ad is all about building.
Anthropic's ad is about trying to take
Open AI down a peg. And we will discuss
this as we put on our ad agency hats
right after this. If the relationship
can't be fixed, find emotional
connection with other older women on
Golden Encounters, the mature dating
site that connects sensitive cubs with
roaring cougars.
What?
And we're back here on Big Technology
Podcast Friday edition. Well, Super Bowl
weekend, and Anthropic decided that this
was the moment to take a shot at Open
AI, hitting it where it hurts, in the
ads program. This is from Business
Insider. Anthropic's Super Bowl spot
skewers ChatGPT. Ads are coming to AI,
but not to Claude. Anthropic is taking a
shot at Open AI on the biggest stage
possible. On Wednesday, Anthropic rolled
out glitzy a glitzy ad campaign that
will air nationally during Sunday's
Super Bowl, which implicitly centers on
Open AI's plan to bring uh advertising
to ChatGPT. Ads are coming to AI, but
not to Claude. The AI The The The ad
tagline reads. Oh my god, there was a
There was one that I saw. There's four
of them, I think, and one I saw was
really funny. It was in the therapist's
office, and the guy goes to the
therapist, "How do I communicate better
with my mom?" And the therapist says,
and she's an older lady, and she says,
"Great question. Improved communication
with your mom can bring you closer. Here
are some techniques you you try. Start
by listening. Really hear what she's
trying to say underneath her words.
Build conversation from a point of
agreement. Find a connection through
shared activity, perhaps a nature walk.
Or, if the relationship can't be fixed,
find emotional connection with older
woman at Golden Encounters, the mature
dating site that connects sensitive cubs
with roaring cougars. Would you like me
to create a your profile? The guy's
like, "What?"
This These were so good. Did you see the
personal trainer one?
Um Yes. Yeah. But again, like I think
Okay, let's first talk about how good
these were. Like, I think it nailed And
remember, South Park was the first one
kind of like really that like skewered
the sycophancy of ChatGPT, but even just
nailing like the cadence of how ChatGPT
responds much more than others. Great
question. But then, slowly degrading
into the ad. It was It was so good.
Um
Yeah. I think like
Claude It's kind of fun, too, that this
is actually probably giving them more
name recognition, I think, than
anything. Cuz remember, like the name
Anthropic, most people normies don't
even know what that is. Claude
does is not a massive product at a kind
of consumer scale. So, I think they did
a good job here. What do you think? My
perspective is, first of all, the ad
wasn't even intended for the Super Bowl.
The ad wasn't intended, by the way. They
released it pre-Super Bowl. You know
why? They wanted that ad to take off. If
people will pay attention to it, if it's
a Super Bowl ad, and they wanted it to
take off, so the potential business
users of Anthropic would circulate that
in the in the office, drop it in Slack,
and mix it on big technology podcast on
a Friday, maybe. And um that is the
intended audience. I don't think they
really care about the broader consumer
audience. It's not like they're trying
to make Claude gain a bunch of users.
So, from that standpoint, I think
potentially successful. They also got
OpenAI to respond. Should we go into the
way that OpenAI responded? Because seems
like they went a little overboard in
their response as well.
>> I think we should. So, here's what Sam
Sam Altman says. So, he says, "First,
the good part of the Anthropic ads, they
are funny and I laughed."
This is just me. By the way, I think we
could all agree they were pretty funny.
He says, "I wonder why Anthropic would
go for something so clearly dishonest.
Our most important principle for ads
says we won't do exactly this."
"Which we would obviously never run ads
in the way Anthropic depicts them. We
are not stupid and we know our users
would reject that. I guess it's on brand
for Anthropic double-speak to use
deceptive a deceptive ad to critique
theoretical deceptive ads that aren't
real. But a Super Bowl ad is not where I
would expect it." "More importantly, we
believe everyone deserves to use AI and
are committed to free access.
Uh maybe even more importantly,
Anthropic wants to control what people
do with AI. They block companies they
don't like from using their coding
products, including us. They want to
write the rules themselves for what
people can and can't use AI for. And now
they also want to tell other companies
what their business models can be."
Um what do you think about this response
from Sam? Oh, one more line. "One
authoritarian company We we care a great
deal about safe, broadly beneficial AGI
and we know the only way to get there is
uh is to work with the world to prepare.
One authoritarian company won't get us
there on their own, to say nothing of
the other obvious obvious risks. It's a
really dark path. It's a dark path."
>> All right. So many layers to this one.
Thank you, Sam, for
giving us this gift of a a response.
One,
I actually think it was like a pretty
good idea to say. It's like they're
using
an ad in a deceptive way to criticize or
to to raise concern around deceptive
advertising. So, like I think it's kind
of
>> There's a point there. That's a good
point.
>> there's a point there. It's a little
nuanced, but
it's it's a point. Then you have the
more Texans use ChatGPT for free than
total people use the cloud in the US.
So, we have a differently shaped problem
they do. This one I thought was so
ridiculous cuz I think as the chief
marketing officer of OpenAI used the
exact same line, which suddenly then
anyone who sees that, it feels so
corporate. It feels like there's like a
crisis comms uh team in there that
coming up with like workshopping ideas.
Someone says, "I got a good one. Let's
use Texas." And then everyone starts to
kind of like in lockstep post that. So,
I thought that part
really weak. And I actually think that
kind of like undercut any value they
potentially got out of posting this
stuff. Then the last part, what a weird
thing to end on with the authoritarian
company won't get us to there on their
own. Like how did he make that logical
leap to Anthropic is authoritarian?
Was it
>> Because I think the the implicit idea
there is
Anthropic keeps warning about the
dangers of AI. Anthropic is very engaged
in Congress for the way to regulate AI.
And you know, almost dismisses other
companies' attempts
to take a different approach to AI. And
so therefore, like you know, and it's
then basically That's why he was like
they're trying to tell us what our
business model is. And that's where he
would say they're authoritarian. I feel
that's a little
flippant on the authoritarian card. Like
come on. You can't drive like explain
what you're trying to exactly say there,
but even what you just described isn't
authoritarian. I know you're just trying
to
help Sam out here, but that to to me
that was
>> help him out, just explain what he was
saying. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But cuz
>> is a little opaque. It's It's just It's
It's trying It's a little
cavalier about authoritarian, especially
in this day and age. So, I think like uh
yeah, overall, I'm going to I'm going to
give this a C- minus rating
on uh
on replies.
The key to beer, the head of product at
X, I guess he's like I don't know where
he is now now that SpaceX owns XAI, he
says
uh comms advice, never respond to
playful humor with an essay. Just say,
"Damn, they cooked us." Or make a joke
about them. There you go. That's That's
all
all you had to do. Or like
uh actually, how would you have
responded? What would be
your response? Or would you have
responded?
I mean, I think that like
I think maybe I like the idea of of
responding um you know, deceptive ad
about deceptive ads. I thought that was
a good line. Yep. Um
I wouldn't have written, "Damn, they
cooked us." It is a little too flippant.
What What about What about something
like, "Sorry,
what's Claude? Never heard of it." Or
something like that. It's just like
>> No, that's a little too teenagy, also.
Yeah, but I mean, like what what do you
have over them? Vast majority people
don't know what it is, are not going to
know what it is. What do you What kind
of name even is Anthropic of a company?
You know, like there's so many
if you want to respond. But I agree,
like otherwise, just just let it go.
But that also gets to like should is
this a good use of not only money for
Anthropic, cuz it's costly, but like an
opportunity to make a splash? And we've
always talked about like I just
published some data on big technology
about how more than half people never
use
uh these these AI AI apps. And the Super
Bowl is an opportunity to get a lot of
consumers, a lot of people to try your
thing.
This is from Rachel Horowitz, a Silicon
Valley comms professional. I don't know,
Anthropic is spending a lot of money on
a Super Bowl ad that talks about OpenAI.
That's pretty good for open AI. People
don't care about ads. They like free a
lot. Pretty sure Pretty sure I saw
Netflix has seen their ad-supported user
base triple in like 2 years.
That's a good point. That's a good
point, actually. I know that that's a
fair point that like
it's funny within people like deep into
it. It definitely everyone like enjoys
the kind of
Sam versus
uh like
uh Anthropic beef, but but yeah, you're
right. Like is it really going to turn
people off?
Maybe not. Like uh people
certainly are okay with ads in all these
different formats. We
talk regularly that Meta might be the
ones that actually figures out how to
run AI ad first ads, but whatever it is,
I think that's a good point that
is it really going to turn average
people off, especially the entire
percentage of the population that have
not used any kind of AI app before.
That's where you should be trying to go
after and it's certainly not for them.
Here's part two of that tweet. We also
know from loads of research that going
hard at a competitor with virtually the
same user experience as you just drags
down the whole sector because people
can't differentiate. The way that
Anthropic ad makes AI chat experience
seem creepy and obsequious is a bit of a
self-own in that way. Possibly. I think
like I don't know. I I [clears throat]
actually I've found Chat GPT to be
degrading like over time. I don't know.
Have you felt this at all? Like it's
getting more
>> obsequious
like even just like I've had to change
my system prompt again to like you do
not have to agree with everything I say,
but like I've been testing it against
Gemini and Claude as well. Like for just
basic queries, everything has to be
great. You're right. That's a great
question.
Um, I don't know. You haven't You
haven't been noticing this at all?
>> experience. It definitely has been
pushing back more than me more on me,
but I Yeah, I've had in my system prompt
for a long time.
Uh, do not be sycophantic. Actually,
hold on. Do you Do you want to hear a
great one that I just run? This one just
like Okay, so and actually this can be a
whole other rant for another day, but
the photo tax now Google Cloud and Apple
keep making me pay more and more money
to just store my photos, and I had both
services and I'm paying I think Apple
$40 a month, Google $20 a month, and I'm
like, this is getting ridiculous when I
think about it. Yeah, how much I'm
paying in a year. So, Google I'm going
to
photos I'm going to get rid of. So, I
asked ChatGPT, I want to export all my
Google photos so I don't have to pay for
storage. What's the best way to go about
this?
And ChatGPT says,
"You're thinking about this the exact
right way."
>> [laughter]
>> I don't get that. That's interesting.
Maybe you're just responding to this
stuff, Ranjan. Maybe you like this. The
cleanest least regret path is export
once, verify locally, and then slowly
unwind
Google Photos, but I literally was like,
all right, how do I get my Google
Photos? And you're thinking about this
the exact right way. Ooh, tell me more.
>> [laughter]
>> You don't get that at all? You don't get
that? I don't get that.
Maybe it is the system prompt. Um, Okay.
>> I I think just to sum this up, uh, I
think Anthropic wins. But bottom line,
in my perspective, it's just it was the
funniest ad. And maybe in long term
there's some hurt, but it's it's very
difficult to make an ad uh, with humor.
I know I was sitting at my desk cracking
up. Seems like Sam Altman was too.
Half of the maybe more of the, you know,
tech industry who's considering using
this,
they laughed. Uh, it's that that is
tough, and they did it. So, I would say
that's overall a win for
Agreed. Agreed.
Uh the ad
A minus.
Sam Altman response C minus.
I will give the ad I will give the ad an
A.
Give Sam a B B B plus response.
I don't hate it.
>> Okay. I don't hate it.
>> Okay. Why can't Anthropic throw punches
and Open AI can't? I don't know. Yep,
make it a good punch. Make the come back
come back strong, but just make it
make it a good
>> Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. So So interesting moment for Open
AI more broadly. I just want to talk
about this briefly. We have talked about
this over the past couple shows. This
week in on Big Technology I did publish
some data looking at the market share of
ChatGPT versus the competitors. First of
all, going to your like what's Claude
perspective, Claude is like the
basically the floor at the bottom.
Uh very few people actually use Claude,
you know, but when they do they use it a
lot.
Um but that being said, Open AI's uh
ChatGPT's market share has dropped from
69%
at in January This is according to
Apptopia. From 69% in January 2025
to 45.3% in January 2026. Now, it is
growing, uh but in that same time, uh
let's see, Gemini has gone from 14.7%
chatbot market share to 25.1%
and Grok has gone from 1.6% surprisingly
to 15.2%.
What do you make of this? I mean, it's
very interesting to see that Open AI
really has company now. Yeah, I I was
Okay, so
with a grain of salt here, I think cuz
this is mobile app daily active user.
And then if you think about
the mobile app experience for any of
these individual tools, like Claude, all
the hype is around using it at your
desktop with Claude code or even the
Claude app or whatever, like it's not
especially cuz mobile app usage is a
very consumer type of thing.
I think Gemini is definitely the most
notable part of this. I think Grok is
interesting, but I'm also curious like
probably that's going to get counted,
I'm guessing, every Twitter reply like
@Grok explain this. You know what I'm
talking about? Like it's everyone's
always
>> app itself.
Really?
Yes.
Do you have the Grok app on your No.
Wait. I don't think Uh and I'll tell you
where Grok usage went up.
And I'm going to publish this, too, I
think.
>> dear. Yep. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no.
>> people Okay, by the way, Grok, it's
called the world's smartest AI advisor.
It has 931,000 ratings on the App Store.
Okay. Okay.
>> Anyway, usage went up when it started to
bikinify young ladies. Yep. The Not
good. No. No.
And it's almost entirely male, and not
surprisingly.
Um interesting. Okay, yeah. No, I think
And actually did One thing I will say,
do you know what's notable to me on this
chart here is Perplexity.
Disap- And Perplexity should if they're
going to compete, that was like a very
mobile-first consumer-friendly
experience.
And I don't know. I don't
I'm wondering what's What's your
prediction for Perplexity?
I think it's done. I mean, it I don't
see how it really serves a purpose
outside of
um you know, different than what you
could do with Gemini
or ChatGPT.
Yeah. It was a cleaner search type of
experience for a long time.
Yeah. And now it's not.
>> AI mode in Google probably killed it.
Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I think so.
And that one, again, like they there was
a strong bump last fall for Perplexity
that's completely disappeared.
So,
I want to ask you something that that I
was asked on CNBC this week, and I'm
actually kind of curious how you would
answer. So like there's been all this
talk about how Nvidia and OpenAI are
have some friction in their
relationship. Like Jensen has gone from
we're going to invest up to 100 billion
to like we will evaluate round by round
and we hope that OpenAI invites us to
invest again. And in the Wall Street
Journal there was some reports that they
were that he had some concerns about the
way that OpenAI did business. Um and
then they you know I was asked well
are there concerns about the way that
OpenAI does business? Uh to me I
basically my response was look um OpenAI
had the lead. They used publicly
available technology to build ChatGPT.
They built the lead. It was inevitable
that there would be others that would
build uh you know similar technology and
they would catch up.
And then you know so what is the health
of OpenAI there? You know is it like
just okay it's normal that others are
catching up because it was inevitable?
And if so then what is the value
proposition for OpenAI and ChatGPT
moving forward if they're one of the
pack? What do you think?
I think I mean to to take the OpenAI
side here
like when we're even looking at this
chart for example it's all relative
market share.
It's not total usage and total
consumers.
>> Right. So as long as the pie is growing
and they are still the vastly dominant
player
I think uh
they're certainly an interesting
company.
I do then we've talked about this plenty
I they have to nail one of these kind of
peripheral business ideas beyond just
ChatGPT $20 a month subscriptions. Um is
whether that's ads
>> focus is is an asset then cuz they have
they just need one
or a couple.
Yeah but they have to they have to land
it. They've tried a lot of stuff. Like
Yeah.
>> Have you used Sora recently, out of
curiosity? I'm just asking on between
Groks or all these, yeah. No, I mean,
they they're really good at big, flashy,
exciting moments, but then they haven't
had anything that's felt like staying
power the way ChatGPT itself and those
early model updates and stuff would just
completely kind of take over for a long
like a prolonged period of time. So, so
I think
I mean, they have to be relatively
interesting. Jensen was definitely a bit
KG, I felt, between the reporting and
then like
>> [clears throat]
>> What do you read about like the Jensen
OpenAI relationship? In some way, they
need each other, in some way, it doesn't
look like Jensen's all that happy. Well,
but that's where my like how I felt
about it is he does need OpenAI to
succeed. He does. Like Nvidia
at the current valuation and story needs
all these like AI to just be an
unquestioned success, and OpenAI if it
completely flops, even if a lot of that
value accrues to a Google or Microsoft,
I really think a lot of the shine, even
on an Nvidia, takes a hit.
Well, if it accrues to Google, that's
just like a TPU success story.
>> that's an even more dangerous one, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, agreed.
Okay, that'll be we'll be watching this.
It's going to be a very interesting
story. All right, Bitcoin. Uh very
briefly, Bitcoin like has gone from what
was it like 110 115 a year like at the
beginning of the year?
>> as of yesterday. It's back up to 70.
>> Now it's at 70. Yeah.
>> Um
Let's see. It was at 124 in October.
So, that's
uh
you know, not a having, but down what a
good a good percentage since then.
Um obviously, Bitcoin doesn't have
earnings. So, can't just fall back on
the earnings like our beleaguered
software companies might over time.
What is going What is your take on
what's happening with Bitcoin? So, I I I
was thinking about this last. So, down
35% this year. I mean, that's after the
I think 11 12% rebound yesterday or
today.
Um
the most fascinating thing about Bitcoin
so far this year for me has been
I don't see anyone talking about it. And
again, I'm sure within certain circles
there's still
uh pretty intense things. Actually, I
was in Dubai last week and the hotel I
was staying at there was like a crypto
event going on and my god, that was just
something
crazy to see. But like overall, I mean,
I don't know. Are you hearing or seeing
like it's just kind of quietly fading
off?
And which I think is possibly one of the
most dangerous things cuz it really
depends on kind of an energy to keep it
moving. So,
I
Yeah, what do you What do you think's
happening? I don't know.
Uh I I just think it's one of those
things that sort of it's built on I
don't want to say group think, but built
on a story, right?
And I don't know. The story The story
When the story doesn't work, Bitcoin
drops. We've seen it so many times. And
when the story works, the story is okay
like, you know, the president is a you
know, a supporter of this and now you
could be able to own it from mainstream
financial institutions, then it works.
But
I I I mean, I have And I hold some. I'll
admit it. But I've always felt that
there was weakness in the underlying
story, which is you know, if it's not
going to be useful as a currency, then
what is it? Store of value? Okay.
That's just depends on people's belief
in it.
But But I also it's a good It's a good
point cuz I don't actually know what the
story is. That's actually the most
dangerous part to me is like Like is it
a hedge against hyperinflationary US
economy because of that. Is it better
way for a manage I don't know like
payments is it whatever there's no
compelling
storyline right now. Is it even yet as
you said the president is going to just
make it a thing like
the actually the only big story I've
read recently was the world fight
Liberty financial story with like the
UAE recently. Yeah, there there's just
no compelling narrative right now around
it which is a problem.
Yeah, this is again this is from Henry
Blodget the problem with Bitcoin and
crypto is there is no level at which it
is cheap. It is only worth what someone
will pay for it. This is not true for
most stocks and currencies most stocks
have some future cash flow that you can
estimate and discount to today and most
currencies can be traded for things that
have value even if the currencies
themselves are gradually depreciating
but Bitcoin it could trade down to 1,000
and still fall 99% and yes it could also
go to 1 million as I suggested back in
2013 or 100 million. Psychologically of
course we are most optimistic about the
price the next guy will pay when the
price is something of something keeps
going up and we get pessimistic about it
when the price is plunging. So here's to
predicting what the next guy will pay. I
think that sums it up.
I mean
yeah, I think
that's how it's felt for a long time but
yeah, I think
that's about right. It's also
interesting hearing from Henry is he off
Twitter?
I actually think that he No, he's on
Twitter and I think he actually built
Oh, maybe this was on LinkedIn. I think
he built a publication that has AI's
writing for it but I haven't seen a lot
of people paying attention to that.
Okay, I feel
kind of miss Henry Blodget my feeds
so I'm glad to hear
glad to see him back here.
All right, last story for this week
Amazon
stock is down
6. about 7% uh today. What happened? Uh
they beat earnings expectations, at
least their cloud unit went up, AWS went
up 24% in the fourth quarter, which is
kind of astounding. Uh but they said
they were going to spend $200 billion
in CapEx, a 60% increase from last year
and far above Wall Street expectations.
Obviously, they are in the AI game and
uh and that is no longer seen as like a
ticket to your stock going up, and so
the stock market reacted poorly.
Overreaction or is Amazon in some sort
of trouble here?
I think with Amazon, again, I guess this
is going back to like I mean, they have
so they have some very big different
types of businesses that have some kind
of synergies between them with them, but
like overall, yeah, it's hard to see
where there's going to be any kind of
massive growth.
I think that's like the I mean, again,
Azure, Google Cloud have been like
massively they had the lead in that
market and uh
did certainly contracted. Their
advertising business has grown
tremendously, but like
there especially, I think, like
agentic commerce presents a threat,
whatever it's going to look like. Maybe
they'll Rufus actually I've been using a
lot more I do find pretty good, but like
I think they're going to There's no It's
hard to see what's the big growth story
with Amazon right now.
Do you do Do you see any? If you're If
you were to be outlining it Amazon
investor day and you were Andy Jassy,
what are you talking about? The one I
just cited is that it's the biggest
cloud services company and it just grew
24%
after growing like 17 18% for a bunch of
quarters in a row.
That's pretty good for Amazon, but I
think
there is starting to be some concern
about Jassy.
And
um
this one Twitter user, discounted cash
flow. I'm just reading I don't agree
with this, but sort of the extreme view
on Jassy, calls him a bean-counting
bureaucrat who lucked into the CEO chair
after brown-nosing Bezos for decades,
inherited the greatest e-commerce
machine ever built and immediately
started breaking it, oversaw the biggest
layoffs in Amazon history, 27,000 heads
uh chopped in waves while he pocketed
200 million in comp packages,
forced a brutal 5-day return-to-office
mandate that sparked internal revolts,
leaked memos and mass quiet quitting, uh
led retail bleed billions in
overexpansion hangover, uh closing
warehouse he helped overbuild, uh AWS
growth decelerated hard on his watch as
Azure and Google Cloud closed the gap.
Uh stock flatlined or lagged behind
peers for years but a post-transition
until AI hype and rate cuts bailed him
out. Uh faces faces massive FTC
antitrust lawsuit for the monopoly
abuses he pretends weren't his fault.
Uh zero vision, infinite corporate
jargon, toxic spreadsheet obsession,
preaches day-one culture while turning
Amazon into a soulless cost-cutting
machine, just another overpromoted
middle manager destroying a founder's
legacy. I mean, probably sounds like it
might have been a uh an an a that anon
account uh might be an ex-Amazon
employee upset with about what's going
on. And you can probably tell a story
like that about most tech company CEOs.
I think the concerning thing is
I know, you read that and you're like,
maybe.
Not not my man Sundar. Not my man Sundar
going from taking pure managerial class
but just kicking ass for
over the last year. Full McKinsey. But
yeah, Amazon's down 13
>> yeah. Amazon's down 13 13% over the past
year,
up 25% 24% over the past 4 years and
definitely doing well since
uh December 2023 when it hit this this
low and the whole market sort of sort of
collapsed.
>> it's a good like
>> year performance not great. Yeah, like I
mean, would you ever bet against Amazon?
It's a It's a risky bet, but even on the
like
shopping commerce side, I feel there's
like a long period of time where they
would just do amazing things.
And nothing's really I mean, I don't
know what the next innovation would be,
but they haven't really done
too much. Again, Rufus is kind of like
interesting for search on the site
itself, but like
overall, Alexa plus I'm I'm liking. It's
It's
It's not bad.
>> I like it.
It's very good.
Oh, she's talking in the back there for
me, but uh yeah, it's good. But what are
they going to do with it? I don't know.
I don't know and I don't think bringing
Jeff Bezos back is the answer. I think
someone said, "You know, if you bring
Jeff Bezos back, you better be prepared
for, you know, 90% staff cuts and 800
billion in capex."
Uh and given what he did to the
Washington Post this week, I don't know
um
if he still has the the Bezos touch, as
they say.
Yeah. No, I don't think it's got to be
They just need some You know what? They
should hire McKinsey
to to tell them what the future
[laughter] is.
Oh my god. It's all about McKinsey.
They're going to be the big winners.
It's very
>> Tristis
Software might die, but consulting
lives. That's our lesson from this week.
Yeah, but the large-scale management
consulting is the future. They will not
die.
All right, Ranjan. Great to have you
back. What a week. I'm sure we'll have
plenty to talk about next week as well.
All right. See you next week.
See you next week. Thank you, everybody,
for listening and watching. Again,
Sridhar Ramaswamy, CEO of Snowflake,
will be on the show on Wednesday to talk
about all this craziness with software
and handicap the AI race overall. Of
course, he spent time at Google and
competing against Google, so he's the
right person to have on show. Uh great
as always to have Ranjan on. Great to
have you all listening and watching, and
we will see you next time on Big
Technology Podcast.