Inside Google's Generative AI Reinvention — With Nick Fox and Liz Reid

Channel: Alex Kantrowitz

Published at: 2025-08-27

YouTube video id: ObnZzSXBXoc

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObnZzSXBXoc

How is generative AI changing Google and
how does Google think it's going to
change everything for all of us? Let's
talk about it right after this. Welcome
to Big Technology Podcast, a show for
coolheaded and nuance conversation of
the tech world and beyond. Today we're
going to go deep into how Google is
handling the generative AI challenge or
opportunity with two of the executives
spearheading the change within the
company. We're joined today by Nick Fox.
He's the SVP of knowledge and
information at Google. Nick, great to
see you. Welcome to the show.
>> Great to be here.
>> And we're also joined by returning
champion Liz Reed, the VP of search at
Google. Liz, great to see you.
>> Delighted to be invited back.
>> So Nick, you and I spoke for my book,
Always Day One, which was a book about
reinvention. Y
>> and the idea was there are going to be
technology shifts that tech companies
are going to have to deal with, and the
ones that stay relevant are the ones
that get ahead of change.
>> Yep. I think we both agree that this
generative AI moment is a moment of
radical change in tech.
>> I agree.
>> How do you figure out the timeline with
which you are willing to implement
change because this technology is moving
extremely fast and it's not moving fast
in a uniform fashion, right? There's
going to be moments where uh it will
excel in some areas and not in others
and in some moments it will be able to
handle certain challenges but then you
add something new and then it
hallucinates more. So with such a quick
changing technology such a powerful
technology how do you plan how do you
move forward with this change?
>> First of all great to be here uh thanks
for having us both. Um I think Google's
is a I think Google search is a story of
reinvention um through uh really really
for for Google's entire history. If you
think about um you could think about the
mobile revolution was a moment of of
reinvention of search. Search was going
from desktop to a mobile device. What
does that mean? Will people still will
people still search through that moment?
What does it mean for advertising etc?
Um Google embraces these moments of
reinvention, right? We um if if we look
out I've been at Google for 22 years.
Liz has also been at Google for 22
years. We look over that course of
history. Each of the technology uh
revolutions, each of the technology
leaps have been fuel for the company.
They've been fuel for the product. They
have been the things that have
dramatically expanded what search can
do. Um and so so we're excited by them
and and we embrace them. The so we tend
to be very quick to embra to embrace
them. Sometimes we embrace them in small
ways to get started with, right? So
generative AI as an example we were
doing, you know, we had BERT, we had MUM
um as as ranking improvements way back
in the early days really as as as the
technology was new that enables us to
get our feet wet with it. Um those were
maybe relatively more subtle changes
relative to where we are today. Um but
um the we embrace quickly we are uh sort
of careful we are thoughtful about it uh
mostly more than anything else because
we care deeply deeply about trust.
Right. But I understand all these
things. I guess the question that I'm
asking you though is
>> everybody in the tech world right now is
saying there are all these new
capabilities. Some of them are working,
some of them don't.
>> How do you organizationally say we're
going to pursue this route? I mean it is
a technology that let's say I'm a
startup, right? I can just throw the
latest model in, see if it works. If it
doesn't roll it back, Google doesn't
have that luxury. So you have to be
really sure about where things are
going. Do you have a process internally
where you're just like we're going to
bet on this, we're not? I mean,
everything else you're saying makes
sense, but like talk about specifically
how you think about this stuff.
>> I would say we have thesis of of of
where things are going to go, right? And
so, um, early on, we understood that
gender AI as a technology was going to
be, you know, this is technology that's
right at the core of information. Um,
and so we understood that that would be
uh uh transformative for how search
works. that was that was a in some ways
a relatively obvious um area to lean
into. Um but other areas we view it from
in in many of these areas I would say
all of these areas in fact we view it
from the standpoint of what are we
trying to do with the product. So if you
look at something like Agentic, right?
This is a um it's it's clear that users
want to get things done in search,
right? They if if you're looking for a
hotel, you ultimately want to go book
that hotel. If you're looking for a
product, you ultimately want to go buy
that product. Um, and so that's an area.
It's clear that that's the future. It's
clear that that's that's that's where
things are going to um are going to go.
So again, we embrace it and and and and
even if it's even if it's early, um, our
view is uh is to embrace it from an
early stage because it's clear that's
that's that's what our users are are
going to look for and it's clear that's
where things are going.
>> Okay, Liz, I promise I'm going to get to
you in a second, but I have to follow up
here.
>> Yeah.
>> U, you speak about Agentic. This goes
exactly to the question I'm asking you
here. We've seen Google, we've seen
Amazon, we've seen Apple all try to roll
out this contextually aware assistant
that gets things done for you. Y
>> I don't think anyone's doing a great job
right now of it.
>> I mean, just to be honest, and from a
user experience,
>> a part of that is is the technology
ready for it? I think, let me just use
Apple for an example. I think Apple
thought the technology was ready for
something they wanted to do and they
couldn't pull it off. now as a skill
issue or a culture issue. Um ultimately
I think if it was easy to implement this
technology if it was working you know up
to par we would get some company that's
that would be able to do this.
>> Um so again like when you think about
you have to prioritize what you work on.
You have to decide
>> um whether or not to go full steam ahead
with this agentic move. Um
how do you go from taking the research
and and development and deciding when
it's time to put it into production? I
think we're convinced that we're
convinced that's the future and so that
leads to the decision to invest and and
the confidence to invest. Um you and
then you roll it out to the extent that
it's to the extent it's ready to be
rolled out. So some things you've seen
us do with search are we start in in in
labs even with AI overviews which has
become a huge success started as search
generative experience in labs and so
that enables us to get started get our
feet wet and then we build confidence
through that to actually know when it's
ready for everyone and so we have a we
also run experiments along the way etc.
So we don't have to make these as sort
of yes or no black or white sort of
decisions. We're able to invest with
conviction because we know it's the
future and then build it and then assess
where we are in terms of how how broadly
we roll it out.
>> Okay. So, Liz, AI mode, which is
Google's way of giving you long large
language model search, uh has been
rolled out to I think everybody in the
United States.
>> Yep.
>> What are you seeing?
>> Seeing uh so it's still very early. It's
only a few weeks in. Um but really happy
with the adoption and that um we're
seeing people use it. We're getting
positive feedback. Um we have a small
set of people um and growing that are
really power users. We see them heavily
engaging with it, using it several times
a day. Um we're seeing them issue longer
queries, experimenting in in different
ways, these more um sort of harder
questions, just asking more of what they
want. Um we got a lot of work to do. Uh
we rolled it out last week to India also
seeing some great early reception um in
India across. But I think it's very
exciting to just see um how people start
to use the product. we see people do
more follow-ups, right? That's one of
the things that we saw with AI overviews
is people liked AI overviews, but you
couldn't really ask the next question.
And sometimes these hard questions, you
have different refinements you want to
ask. Um, so that's been great to see how
people are going on there. And we got a
lot of features coming ahead this week.
I think it's this week, we rolled out um
Gemini 2.5 Pro and deep search for our
pro and ultra users in AI mode, so they
can ask even harder questions going
forward across um and a lot of exciting
work coming up ahead.
>> Okay. And for our viewers and listeners,
uh we're going to run this a couple
weeks after the interview. So,
>> okay,
>> these are loose timelines that we're
sharing here. Uh but but AI mode is a
reinvention of search, so to speak.
>> Uh it takes the search from typical
keyword searches to
>> something more conversational.
>> U
>> do you think that the future of search
is going to be AI mode style or is it
going to be both? Because when I thought
about generative uh generative AI
chatbt, you know, in the early days,
I've always thought it's different use
cases than traditional search. So, how
does Google think about it?
>> I think there's a large spectrum of um
questions that people ask, right? Um if
all you wanted to do is get to big
technology, you don't have to go have a
conversation about it. You're just going
to continue to type in the keyword,
navigate to the site, right? Um other
times you have harder tasks. Those are
the ones that invite more of that
conversational style. Um, but sometimes
it's not black and white. Somebody asks
a question that they think is a quick
question and then they get inspired and
then they continue the conversation. Um,
we were coming up here uh and we were
wondering how fast the elevator is
>> up to the top. It's pretty fast is the
is the short answer, right? Um, so he
gave a response then then I ran and went
and read an article about how they said
they they changed the speed of it um to
actually allow more people to get up to
the um uh exploratory deck um on one
world trade center. So I learned about
it then I had another question to ask
and so I think came in with a quick fact
but then it evolved into a longer
conversation. Um, and so I think the
thing about search is it's a very broad
space and so there's all different types
of questions and so I don't think use
cases are all one or the other. Um, I
think we'll see people interact fluidly.
I also don't think it's just text,
right? You said is it quick or not? Um,
we've rolled out search live um in
search labs with a um with AI mode. Um,
we have lens that's continued where
people are doing more image searches.
Um, so I think what we'll see is that
people will ask their questions in
whatever way is natural like what is the
way that you would like to ask that
question? what's the most effective way?
What's the most efficient way? Um, and
then we should make it easy for people
to explore.
>> Well, then why are we going to have two
different experiences? Is there a point
where Google's technology gets smart
enough that if I type in, let's say, big
technology, it's like, oh, you want the
link, here's the link. Or if I type in a
longer query, it should maybe have some
understanding of the intent there and
answer longer.
>> Yeah, I think we um absolutely attemp,
you know, continue to evolve to try and
adapt it. um to some degree that is what
the main search page has historically
done. Um we've had image search which
says okay if you want a few images you
get them on the main search page but if
you want to dive in deeper you can go to
image search right now that's the way AI
mode is really is okay if you don't if
you just have a question you shouldn't
have to think about it just go to search
ask your question if you want to dive in
deeper then you can engage with AI mode
um and we'll see how they both evolve
does AI mode continue to grow um does
the main search take in more of AI mode
capabilities and evolve we'll see where
they end up
>> where are you doing most of your
searches
>> uh I do them across both of them. It
depends what type. A lot of my um
>> You don't Wait, you don't have a feeling
of like where the majority of your
queries are going, whether it's in the
AI mode or the
>> just they're split. They're split um
pretty strongly. Uh I don't know if it's
40 6040, but but pretty down. Um it
depends on on the types of questions,
right? Um right now, if I'm trying to
find a restaurant to eat, I still find
main search more effective for a lot of
those questions. When I'm curious about
a new topic and I'm exploring, I often
find AI mode better. or if I'm checking
a sports score, I'm still more likely to
use um main search. So, it just depends
on on the question.
>> It's a hard question to ask us because
we tend to use our products in in odd
ways almost to try to break the product
or to to sort of really see us um uh uh
the edges of the product. And so, um I I
don't think our our our natural
searching behavior is is is particularly
normal,
>> right? But I feel like we could learn a
lot by asking the people at Google the
way that they're gravitating. So, um, by
the way, speaking of the information
that's in AI mode, I'm actually curious,
Nick, what you think about this. There
is a growing field, uh, for AI SEO.
We'll go to both of you on this one.
We'll start with you, Nick. Um, first of
all, what do we call it? Is it go like
generative engine optimization or how do
people call it within Google?
>> I think I heard geo for the first time
today actually. I hadn't I hadn't heard
that. We deeply need a better name like
an AI SEO.
>> Uh I think
>> this industry won't keep running without
proper jargon. So
>> um I think that's right. I think um you
know I think I think it's a very natural
question. How do I you know people uh
people websites um are clearly
interested in how do I optimize for this
experience? We are talking to websites
um website owners etc. publishers etc.
um um about that. Our general advice uh
to websites is the way you optimize for
generative AI is actually the same you
would um generative AI in search is
similar to how you would um optimize for
search overall. Um
uh what's particularly helpful in in
generative AI is um is deeper content um
because um in some cases the AI response
will be sort of the first layer uh first
layer of the response and and uh what we
hope is that the the web links um will
enable the user to go deeper and really
explore a topic in more detail. So
that's that's a but but that would have
applied for um for traditional search as
well. Um, but that is uh certainly an
area that that that there's a lot of
interest and and uh we're trying to help
uh publishers through that experience.
>> The thing I've heard is that it's
driving uh marketers nuts because they
used to run by a certain playbook. Now
they're not quite sure what to do. Maybe
that's good. Liz, what do you think? Is
that good that they're not able to game
the system just yet? I mean, I think um
what we've always uh tried to do with
our guidelines is get publishers to
focus less on how do they change the
ranking and more on are you producing
content that people want to read? Okay.
Um and so that's what I would tell the
marketers. Could you stop working on
trying to figure out how you focus on
the system and really just is this
content that you as a user would want to
go read and spend five minutes on? Um,
and I think the more that we can surface
that content, um, the more it becomes
the case that people aren't focused on
answering the first part of the
question, but really thinking what do
they bring to the content, um, what's
the the the thought in it, the
perspective, the experience that they
bring, and that's what they're talking
about. Um, then I think the better
everyone will be. And so I think if
marketers have to just focus on building
content for people, that that's awesome.
Have you ever heard the warning that
Wikipedia gives people and when they
want a a Wikipedia page? I don't know if
they still do it, but in the past, I'm
pretty sure they would tell you you
might not want a Wikipedia page because
once something happens uh and you're
involved in it, it could get on there
and you have no control. And um so be
careful what you wish for. And I
actually was speaking with a reputation
management person who was like, I don't
know what we're going to do with uh
Gener AI because if someone types a
person's name in, it's going to start
becoming like that Wikipedia page where
if they did something bad, it's probably
going to show up whereas before they
used to be able to like, I don't know,
create results and push that down.
>> What do you think about that? It's
interesting, right? Changes things. I
think it's um really interesting that
we're going to get to a um a world right
now where people can get more
perspective often, right? I think that's
one of the nice things about AI
overviews is that um you know it's it's
great that you have all of these
different web results, but to the extent
that the web results gave different
perspective, people might have only
clicked on one and sort of assumed that
was the whole thing. Um but the AI
reviews will give you actually multiple
perspectives. then you say, "Oh, there's
a few different views on this. Let me
read more about each of them." Um, and
so that opportunity to understand more
holistically about a topic. Um, I think
is really exciting and then you learn
new things and you know the new things
can be all different flavors. Um, but I
think it's great for people to sort of
gain more perspective on different
things.
>> Yeah, I definitely think that's
happened. I had an experience recently
where there was a uh an a nasty
insulting word that was being used on
Twitter, but I didn't know the meaning.
So I typed it into Google and I think
the first result was an Auburn fan and
then the second result was the
explanation of that word the one that I
was looking for and I was like wow it is
interesting how AI overviews can be
comprehensive like that and show both.
>> Yeah and that's really the the design
intent is is to is to give as much much
breath of perspective or understanding
of a topic um as we can and then again
help people go deeper if they want to
explore further. So, let's talk a little
bit about what reinvention really means
because Nick, you started your comments
today just talking about how Google is
in reinvention mode. I've said it's in
reinvention mode. Um, and the first
thing you say is, do you reinvent
search? Do you go from keywords to more
natural language, for instance, and let
people have conversations with search in
AI mode versus just being like, okay,
you know, writing like our own little
computer language to get in. But I
wonder, is this actually going to be the
format? Uh, more and more we're seeing
people build AI companions, uh,
therapist lovers, and as long as they
are generative and plugged into the
internet or the system,
>> they might start asking them questions.
So, you were involved deeply with the
Google Assistant back in the day. You
still are overseeing it.
>> I do not.
>> You don't oversee it. No longer. Okay.
So, strike that. You were, but you were,
we spoke a lot back when you were
involved. uh with the assistant. Um do
you think that the way that we interact
with the web information online becomes
a different form factor than traditional
type in the words and get the answers?
>> I think it will expand. Um uh that's my
um expectation. People are obviously
using chat bots uh sort of more these
days. In some ways that's uh the
evolution of um of assistance. um our
bet, our belief is that people will
continue to use uh search and grow their
grow their usage of search as well.
There's probably a meaningful amount of
sort of ven diagram overlap, right?
There's um uh I think it's unlikely that
that uh that the future of search is is
sort of a companion that you're um uh
sort of building uh maybe emotional
relationship with. it's possible. Um uh
but TBD um uh today what we see is is is
uh uh people are using both, right? And
and and there's certainly uh people that
are using chat bots. There are certainly
still people using search. They go back
and forth uh between them quite a bit.
Um and so I think how exactly this
evolves is um um is is is still to be
seen. uh from a search point of view uh
you know back to your reinvention point
um it it's it's uh it's critical that we
continue to reinvent again I mentioned
this at the beginning it's been the
story of search but um we we see these
reinvention opport we see these
reinvention moments to really expand
what you can do with search that's what
we're seeing with AI over it's amazing
to see with AI overviews the increase in
queries um from AI overviews is um is
amazing to see we we announced uh we
shared at at Google IO that people are
doing 10% % more queries uh for the
types of queries that trigger um AI
overviews. That's a lot, right? That
that's that's that's that's a meaningful
change in user behavior. These are
longer queries. These are uh more sort
of who, when, where, why type queries.
Um so we see them as so we see each of
these reinvention moments as as as these
expansionary um opportunities. So again,
we lean into them pretty hard.
>> Okay? because I'll I'll explain a uh
interaction mode I have with search now
that's very different than one I've ever
had.
>> Okay.
>> Um
>> when I want to when I'm on the go and I
want to find things and you probably
know where this is going. Um I just like
pull out chat voice mode. There is a
character that I speak with and I say,
"Hey, can you help me figure it out?"
And instead of being that guy on the
sidewalk who everybody hates like typing
and walking, now I'm just having a
conversation with the internet. So, are
we going to end up like Liz, are you
already brainstorming this idea of
having like a Google search avatar that
we speak with or a personality?
>> Um, I don't think we've quite thought of
it as an avatar, but we have actually um
rolled out search live um in labs that
allows you to have more of a
conversational um experience. Ask the
questions, get a response. Um we also
bring up links so that if you get
intrigued by something, you can continue
to dig in. Um, I don't think it's
necessarily at this point that we're
thinking of it as pick your favorite
personality. I think it's important that
Google has more of a a neutral um and
trustworthy one of it doesn't have a
particular angle on things but brings
multiple perspectives. But the idea that
should be fluid in an audio form and
doesn't have to be by text is absolutely
something we see and this is how we
started to roll out search live.
>> I probably do about half of my personal
AI mode queries uh by voice. Um, maybe
it's that I'm on the go, maybe it's that
it's a much longer query, so it's going
to be a bit annoying to type in um on my
phone. But I do expect that voice will
will, you know, voice voice is already a
big part of search. I expect it'll be a
growing part of search as well,
particularly as queries get longer.
>> So, it's interesting that you mentioned
that Google has to be neutral. Do you
either of you ever worry about the
startups in the rearview mirror because
um they have much more flexibility. And
I'll point out again, people are some
people are falling in love with their AI
companions. I mean, if you have that
sort of relationship with technology and
you start asking it things that can
search the web, uh, that's latitude that
a company like Replica might have that
Google doesn't. So, is that like an
innovator's dilemma problem that you're
worried about?
We I mean the the biggest um the biggest
thing that we really try to make sure is
is is that we maintain our users trust
and we grow our users trust over time.
So that's the the thing that to the
extent that anything holds us back, it's
uh we don't want to make a mistake for
our users. We we don't want to violate
the trust of our users. So um uh
that's always a very uh front and center
front of mind for us.
>> I get it. So if Google breaks up with
you, then you're going to have a very
different feel of what Google is for the
rest of your life.
>> Yeah, we we would be worried we we we
would be worried about something like
that. Um we have experimented much more
in labs and so so having the labs
environment has been uh important for us
because we can try things that are a
little bit more nent. We started AI
overviews in labs. We started um AI mode
in labs. Uh that enables us to
experiment with uh users who want to be
more on the cutting edge. we can be um
uh um and so we can push further there
for the for the core main search
experience. Um we really try to make
sure that things are are well vetted
before before we bring it to that
experience. But the experience of going
from labs then to experiments and then
then to shipping has rapidly has also
gotten really fast. We're we're shipping
really fast these days. Um and so um so
we think that we think that cycle works.
Can you explain to me how that happened?
Because the world watched OpenAI take
the lead with Chad CPT and myself
included, we all said, "Where's Google?
Where's Google? Where's Google?" We knew
we knew you had a working uh large
language model inside the company called
Lambda because one of your engineers
thought it was a real person or
sentient. Um, so everybody knew Google
had the technology and then it seemed
like a switch flipped and I mean we go
back to the spring where IO came and now
there's IO. Now there's AI within
everything in Google. Now maybe this was
a perspective problem because Google
have been talking about AI for many
years. I've been to many of your
developer conferences. It seems like the
theme is AI. It's been it's been a thing
for a while,
>> but it seemed I guess the difference is
that it seemed like things were shipping
or um this urgency to get things in
labs, get it tested, this boldness to
say, "All right, we have a format of
search that might disrupt our current
form of search, but we're just going to
roll it out right next to regular search
and see what happens." Uh, how did
Google go from the company that was, it
seemed like, to the outside, afraid of
generative AI to one that embraces it?
I think the technology needed a lot of
maturation right very early on if you
sort of rewind uh rewind to those early
days the technology hallucinated quite a
bit um uh certainly within the context
of search factuality matters a lot we
don't we don't you know people trust
that when they when they search for
something on Google the results they get
are um are highly accurate um they're
high quality etc so um that was a that
that was a big area of concern for us
and the technology was uh was was truly
nent um and and and had a lot of risks
around it. Uh so we invested um
aggressively
um and and Liz can talk more about this
in um in grounding in factuality in in
getting to that point. And so that was
really I would say that was the real
unlock for us is is is
was developing the technology and
developing um all sort of everything
around it um that we could feel
confident that was the thing that made
sense to put in front of our users.
>> Yeah, Liz, it's interesting. Um,
obviously Google had that incident where
uh someone asked it how to make a pizza
and it said put glue on it or eat rocks
or any number of weird things. And from
your position, it you go from that
moment where I think maybe a reaction
would be let's clamp this down. We've
certainly seen that uh with Bing,
although it was a more extreme example,
but when it tried to uh steal a New York
Times columnist away from his wife, they
kind of said we shouldn't do that
anymore. But so how do you then go from
like oh that's a problem to even still
because it's more risk roll this out as
broadly as you have.
>> Yeah. So um I think there's a couple of
things that were important there. Um one
search search has never been perfect. Um
you know people will go and say with AI
featured snippets have had challenges.
Knowledge graph is web ranking isn't
perfect. Um and so we're always on um a
relentless pursuit to make the quality
even better. Um what we saw with with
that incident was both um those queries
were quite rare. We saw them only like
one in seven million these these types
that that people were phrasing but we
still really cared about the trust and
so we felt like we needed to take action
on it. And so um there's so much
potential with the technology that we
didn't think the right thing is is
clamped down but the right thing isn't
all either just let it be. So we put a
lot of effort into um understanding what
were the types of failures that were
getting surfaced. Um, one of the things
that was different with generative AI is
we were seeing um, new types of queries
than we had previously seen. You you
mentioned eat rocks. Um, people
previously did not come to Google search
and say how many rocks should I eat
today or a day or any other form of how
many rocks should I eat today because
they already knew they needed a little
affirmation about eating those couple
>> about those ones, right?
>> High and iron.
>> So, so if you went and and sampled our
queries and you looked for general
things and you know we did extensive
vows, we weren't seeing queries like
that, right? um you can say that that's
a particular one, but more more
generally these sort of false premise
questions, right? We're like it's not
really a question that that people are
seeking out um sort of cropped up in new
ways. Um the other thing that cropped up
in new ways was essentially um how do
you think about forum and UGC content,
right? Um the the glue on pizza is a
really thoughtful forum discussion that
includes one sarcastic um uh comment
about about glow on pizza that we picked
up on there. Okay. So it wasn't enough
to understand the site. It wasn't enough
to understand a page. We had to get
smarter about each section on a page
even if a page was trustworthy in that.
Um and so when when you look at the the
the value the tech can do, we don't view
it as oh well there's some problems
therefore don't try. we view it as a
challenge to figure out how do you
overcome how do you handle the
challenges that come up in the problems.
Um and so people really put a lot of
effort into figuring how to do that and
then we saw with our vows that we had
really made progress on those problems
and continue to grow um and we'll always
make mistakes will always continue to
improve it but um we have quite a
rigorous aval and testing process um and
feedback loop on it that helps guide us
to ensure that we're doing the right
thing by users. Okay, so I want to talk
about the future of the web and how
publishers are going to be able to
survive this moment because even if
people are spending that 10% more time
in AI in AI mode, uh maybe they're not
going to websites anymore. So, let's do
that right after the break. And we're
back here on Big Technology Podcast with
Nick Fox, the SVP of knowledge and
information at Google, and Liz Reed, VP
of search at Google. Of course, one of
the issues that we see in this moment is
that the way that the information gets
into the bots um is it's kind of like a
reverse Robin Hood where it takes from
these poor publishers and sort of gives
to the already rich Google and allows it
to surface this information to users um
without sending the traffic back. You
might dispute the characterization, but
I think it's important to bring up
Matthew Prince, the CEO of Cloudflare,
talked about how back in the day you
would get two crawls uh per page uh and
that would send one visit, two Google
crawls, and eventually you would get one
visit from those crawls. Now that number
is something like 18 to1 or even even
higher. Uh people don't like going to
the footnotes because they're starting
to trust these bots more. That's what he
says. So, how is there a future for a
healthy web if we keep moving this way?
So, we love the web. We deeply believe
in the web.
>> That's good. That's good. Um,
>> same here.
>> The, uh, uh, I think we share that. Um,
you know, Google's a company that's
grown up on the web, right? And I don't
think it's an overstatement to say that
there's no company that cares more about
the web than than Google does. And so,
we we care about this deeply. We think
about this deeply. Um, and we have built
both AI overviews and AI mode um to be
to be very web forward. Um
it is a losing battle to to fight users,
right? There's a user change happening
here. Um users are looking for it's
clear that users looking are looking for
a different kind of experience. If
they're looking for a summary,
we should not stand in the way of giving
that user a summary, right? Um
uh a product has to evolve and you have
to evolve listening to your users. Uh so
that's not a choice. Um what is a choice
is is how we do it, right? And so the
approach that we've taken um is to be
very uh very web forward. We uh we have
uh links throughout the experience. Um
we try to very prominently feature uh
content. Um we try to not recite
content. Um when we do um uh you know if
we're referencing
um uh a specific a specific publisher or
a specific perspective um we try to say
according to big technology or according
to Bloomberg or whoever it might be uh
that will be linkified right and so uh
so so to drive traffic um so that's our
that's our approach that's our ethos um
the if you look holistically
um uh traffic to the web from search has
been stable over time um there's lots of
reports of um um of of large decreases
there. You know, at any given point in
time, there are sites that do well,
there are sites that that that struggle,
but if you look holistically over um
across uh traffic broadly to the web
from Google has been um has been largely
stable over time. Um so, a lot of this
is um uh it's um
there is clearly a change happening. uh
we're trying to do it in um uh a very
web uh uh forward and friendly way. Um
um and and that's that's our approach.
>> Um I think just one thing to add um uh
we we definitely understand that that
that publishers and and some folks are
are are seeing less traffic, but what's
also going on here is other traffic
shifts. Um we're here doing a podcast.
We're doing a podcast because people
actually like podcasts these days,
right? Um, so you're seeing a shift,
especially among younger users for where
are they going to information. So
they're going more to podcasts, they're
going more to forums, they're going more
to social posts and less away from some
of the traditional media. And so some of
what people are assuming is about um
what's happening with AI is actually
more about the shifts to new forms of
media um that that people are seeking
out. Whereas the overall traffic is
relatively stable,
>> right? But there are publishers that
have marked decreases when AI overviews
uh started rolling out. I mean just to
give you one example and I've given it
on the show before speaking with the
publisher World History Encyclopedia who
saw a 25% decrease in traffic like tied
directly to AI overviews coming out. Um
I don't I don't think it's productive
for us to like have a back and forth
over like whether that was actually AI
overviews related or not. He believes it
is. Google might believe that there's
like you know these fluctuations. I
guess the question is what do you do
about it? Because that information is
valuable to the web and to to people
forget the web just to people in general
and without ways to support themselves
uh we might not get that as much. So
could you envision a way where instead
of someone from like world history
encyclopedia which is the number two uh
history site or number two yeah number
two history site on on the web after the
Library of Congress that they just like
write that content for the LLMs and then
it gets sort of ingested by let's say AI
mode and then sorted to users if that's
the new way that people want to spend
their time.
I think that's possible. I but it it's
not the bet we're making. Uh the bet
we're making is that the uh that the
value exchange that search has has
existed on for years um is largely
intact and it's and it still makes
sense. Um uh websites make their content
available uh uh for indexing and and and
and as a result of that, Google sends
traffic um to those sites. Again, it
will vary site by sight, right? There's
some sites that will do incredibly well.
Mhm.
>> Uh there are some sites that that may
struggle. Um and so and but that's been
that's been the history over time when
when we did mobile, a site that didn't
adopt mobile maybe would would have
struggled etc. or sorry when when the
world evolved to mobile uh you know
different different uh different sites
did well um uh through that. Um but by
and large um our view is and and the
approach we're taking is that traffic
still matters and that fundamentally
users want to visit the web, right? Um I
was giving an example the other day um
of uh I'm going to London uh uh was
looking for a hotel. I was looking for a
hotel near a park convenient to um um to
the airport convenient to a certain
train state. You I was sort of had all
these all these details that I was
looking for. Um AI mode gave me a a nice
uh response. It gave me gave me some
good recommendations. Ultimately though,
it's a hotel. I wanted to see a review
of that hotel. So I clicked through a
review site. Ultimately, I wanted to
actually finally book that. So, I uh
click through the booking site. Um I
think it's uh I think it's uh too
reductive to say it's AI or the web.
>> Okay.
>> Um and our our our our view is that it's
AI and the web. Um and and those and and
those work together. Um and and and so
that's our approach. I think I might
have been a little too snarky in the way
I set this segment up because if you
think about it, Google's actually
sending uh far more traffic per crawl
than the others. I think Anthropic is up
to something like 60,000 to one
according to the Cloudflare data. And I
always felt that um and I I might make
some enemies saying this, but I always
felt that this um publisher insistence
that Google pays them for highlighting
their information in um Google News for
instance. So that headline in two
sentences um that to me felt overboard
like this is a service where you're
going to get highlighted, you allow the
crawl and you're going to get a ton of
traffic. Like I'm a small independent
publisher. I'd love to be in those
Google News results. Um, so I think that
that was a little overboard, but this is
this is a little different, I think. And
maybe the traffic is consistent, but u
it just feels like given this like
history example, you could spend uh your
time reading about it on the website or
you could just like um read about the
history event you want to in AI mode or
what I'm starting to do now, have a
conversation with the AI voice. So is
there ever some concern that that the
training data for the models will go
away if the economics don't make sense
for them or like for instance maybe
these websites will go away if they're
not because even though Google doesn't
Google's just indexing them and not not
like responsible for their um existence
like a lot of companies really did count
on that Google traffic to stay alive.
it is for sure the risk if if we get
this wrong, right? Um and and it's a
it's a large part of the reason we care
so much about it. Um a a in some ways a
search engine ceases to exist if there's
if there's no web to search over, right?
And so so this is when I when I say that
we love the web, this is a large part of
the reason we love the web is is uh it
really is the ecosystem with which and
on which uh uh Google search operates,
right? And so uh we deeply care about
it. We don't see signs that
um that again we we see that we see the
we see the traffic value. It's it's it's
why we think it matters that the traffic
is is healthy and stable over time. Um
is uh if not then we would start to get
worried about that. Now again in pockets
right may maybe it's tougher to be um
you know a certain type of encyclopedia
uh given uh given what these tools do.
So again there may be pockets where it's
where it's tougher where it's where it's
different. Um, but that's always been
the story of the web, right? There there
have always been uh those that those uh
those that thrive and those that
struggle.
You have to lean into what the future
is, right? It's it's uh um uh
uh we have to evolve to where where
where users are, where users are going,
what the technology can do. Um and
again, we just have to um our approach
is to do it in a way um that that
enables the web to thrive through that
moment. So are you're here in New York
speaking with publishers. Are you both
speaking with publishers or was it
>> uh we both had um we've we both uh had a
set of meetings with with with
publishers.
>> So how are those going? Let's go to you
Liz. Like are they understanding this
moment and
>> um what's what's being discussed?
>> Um
>> I imagine it was about generative AI.
>> When we talked about search and search
includes search includes generative AI.
I mean I think um you know many
publishers these days are sort of trying
to understand how is the future going to
evolve right um I think um the the
understanding you know as Nick mentioned
standing still is not going to work it's
not going to work for any of us um
search search included um but we all
really do want to find a way to make
this work um for publishers for media um
and I think without that we don't have a
search engine. We don't have a product
and so we have to go find a way to make
it effective. Um I think what we will
see if we do it right is that um really
great in-depth rich content that people
bring when people bring their
perspective, their opinion, their
experience, their expertise um that
content will continue to thrive because
people want to hear it. They're not
giving their fashion advice to an AI bot
by and large. Okay? The people I know
who are giving their fashion advice are
not the people who are spending any time
on fashion before. They're spending no
time on fashion going forward, right?
But the rest of the folks who care about
it, they still want to read that
influencer. They still want to read the
style magazine. Um those folks who are
really deeply interested in tech,
they're going to still want to hear your
podcast, right? Like you can talk to an
AI bot about generative AI or we can
hear your thoughts, right? Um and so we
really want to continue to make that
content thrive. um and come to the
surface and we spend a lot of time
thinking about um not just how are AI
overviews or AI mode really high quality
but what does it mean to really make it
web forward um how do we surface those
links what are the best links to do how
do we allow people to understand um the
value in continuing to go deep and
progress what will they get when they
get to those websites we started um
initially with more of a tray of of web
links um and then we said okay that's
great we still believe in that but we
want to add links within particular
sections because maybe you don't know um
which of the general sites but you want
to learn more about this one particular
part. Um then we started doing um as
Nick was referring to in some cases
according to big technology according to
somebody else and linkifying that when
we think it's really about their voice
um could be according to a Reddit user
or could be according to big technology.
You'll think about the sentence that
follows differently and you'll want to
hear about it and read about it
differently. Um, so we're constantly
have folks experimenting on the teams
with how do we really um take the beauty
of the web and surface it in a way that
allows people to to dig in deeper on it.
>> How is uh search revenue continuing to
grow the way that it is in this moment.
I would imagine that as people use AI as
it's still nent in terms of the way that
it sends traffic to publishers, still
nent the way that you monetize. Uh, but
every time I'm like looking at the
numbers for the quarter or seeing them
come in, I'm just like, huh? You know,
it doesn't seem like it should be
possible to grow. I think it's like
double digits search revenue somewhere
in that area
>> in this moment. What's going on?
>> So, there's a there's a few interesting
things that are all kind of happening at
the same time. Um, the first is uh
queries continue to grow. Um and and
we've and and and we've shared that on a
year-on-year basis, queries are growing.
Um a lot of that is is propelled by
generative AI, right? And so generative
AI has been um in a lot of ways um fuel
for growth. Um as as as users realize
they can ask more questions, they can
bring more questions uh to search. So
that's that's that's a big part of it.
Uh the second part of it is AIO
overviews fit into the existing um uh
search results page. The search the
existing search results page has
advertising on as well. Um and so as we
drive more queries um you know those
queries monetize and and and we have an
existing um advertising model for that
which also drives traffic um um to
advertisers who are selling things or
enable people to book hotels and things
like that. Um so that's that's another
um uh major piece of it. The third piece
is at the same time as all of that's
happening on the on the on the on the
results page itself. We're applying
generative AI to our advertising
products too. Um and so you know the in
a lot of ways the holy grail of
advertising for the longest time has
been advertising come to us with here's
my site, here's how much I'm willing to
spend. Here's the ROI goal I have.
Go do it. Um and we've been on that
journey for um uh for a long period of
time. Generative generative AI takes us
an additional step uh towards that. So
uh we can be better at matching ads to
queries. We can be be better at um uh
generating creatives, you know, those
types of things um on on behalf of our
of our advertisers. The fourth thing is
as the queries get more uh specific um
and and detailed that leads to more
valuable traffic to advertisers. So
advertisers
um uh uh um care about their conversion
rate. They care about obviously their
return on investment. The higher the
conversion rate, the higher that um that
the higher the more valuable that click
um uh to the advertiser is. So the more
that um that we're able to provide uh
enable users to specify their their
intent more specifically, the more we're
able to to deliver a more qualified lead
to the advertiser. So all of those kind
of work together in um in a in a pretty
symbiotic way.
>> And uh there have been people that have
surmised that there's less impressions.
So the CPC is up co cost per click. Is
that wrong?
Um we don't um uh we don't share um
overall ad impression uh uh numbers.
It's not one of our uh financial
disclosures. We do share that um pay
clicks um um have grown over time as as
as well as CPC. So um both both of those
are are growing over time.
>> Okay. How about shopping? Uh I I just
think that shopping is going to be a
real important new thing that happens
through these bots. Um, I I've really
gotten to the point where I won't buy
anything unless I research it
>> uh with a generative AI chatbot. Uh,
what's the future of that going to look
like?
>> Liz, do you have any thoughts?
>> Um, yeah. I mean, I think there's a few
things. I I think generative AI makes um
shopping exciting in a number of
different ways. Um, one, you know,
you've got different types of shopping.
You've got ones that are sort of more um
apparel or stylistic. um you've got
others that are you're going to go buy
an appliance, right? Um in the case of
appliances, um you want to do the
research, but but sometimes you want to
understand about two or three different
products, and those are not the two or
three products that people have chosen
to compare with. Somebody compares one
product with with another product,
someone compares this product. And so,
it's not really allowing you to do
research on the subset of products you
want to look at. Okay? But then with
generative AI, you can because you're no
longer dependent on one web page talking
about the three products you want to
compare. You get to specify. You also
often have criteria that you want to
that you care about that are maybe not
really what people are spending the time
researching on, but that information is
buried somewhere on the web. Um, and so
I think that ability with something like
an appliance to really gather the
information across the web, understand
holistically what it is, um, and then
dig in deeper on the web is pretty
exciting to see. On the apparel side,
there's lots of times where you both
want, um, some level of like, okay, the
dress has to fit my size, so I have a
couple of structured data fields, but
then beyond that, what I want is not
really a structured data menu. It's
something that's um to describe. I want
to feel more classic. I want it to feel
summary. I want, you know, I I would
describe it um to a friend or to a sales
person differently than you might have
previously done with keyword ease. But
generative AI lets you actually sort of
start to describe what do you actually
want, right? Um and that kind of
changes, I think, what we can do with
shopping going forward. um and really
allow um
both in in some cases the the more
unique merchants, right? These these
merchants who are undiscovered that have
great products um your local merchants,
others that have ones to be found
because now people can actually express
something in a way that narrows it down
to where they shop. And so I think
that's pretty exciting to see. I think
we'll also see a lot of work around
agents. We talked about some of um the
efforts um at IO with the ability to um
decide that you want to track the price
of something and so when it goes on sale
do that. Um try virtual tryon was a um
highlight at IO. Um I am so I never know
what the clothes are going to look like
on me. Do I have to buy then do I have
to return it? Returning it's like not
fun for me. It's actually not fun for
the merchant, right? It's not usually
good for for their business if they have
a lot of returns. This idea that you can
actually just see what it looks like and
so have more confidence when you buy it
that that you'll keep it I think is
really great. So I think there's a lot
of opportunity with shopping in Jiren of
AI. I don't know if there's anything you
want to add Nick.
>> I think you got it.
>> Yeah. No, I I'm definitely watching that
space pretty closely and probably
another good uh emerging well not
emerging business because Google
Shopping is a big business already but I
think probably an area for a lot of
growth.
>> A lot of space for transformation.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. What about visual? I mean, we I I
think Google started with uh Google
Glass, went away. Now everyone's
building AR glasses. Is that going to be
a format of search in the future?
>> I think so. Um I think um uh I think I
mean it's a rel it's a relatively nent
space.
>> Lens is doing pretty well.
>> Lens is doing on fire.
>> Let's talk about that.
>> Lens is doing phenomenally well. The
combination of lens and AI overviews is
is doubly on fire.
>> Okay. So, it blends is you point your
photo at an item and you can ask it a
question about
>> uh the Yeah. And there's really two
things that are taking off. One is you
can point your camera at something and
and say what is this or um sort of
here's my homework. Can you give me some
help with my homework? These types of
things. So, it's doing very very well
with with younger users too. Uh the
other piece of it is uh circle to search
uh which is um so that's that's the
camera version of it. But what if I want
to search something that's on my screen?
Um, so I might have a homework
assignment on my screen or I might see
um a bag that I like in say an Instagram
post or something like that. Um, uh,
ties back into shopping. Maybe I want to
go buy that or I want to find out what
it is or whatever it might be. Um and so
that sort of combination of uh input is
visual um and then the AI summary or the
AI response um and then again with links
to do I want to buy it, do I want to uh
go deeper um is is is proven to be a
really really powerful combination.
>> Okay, I want to make a note about um
actually let's talk can we talk about
notebook LM?
>> Sure.
>> How's that doing?
Um, so Notebook LM, by the way, folks,
I'm sure many of our listeners know it.
If you don't know it, you can drop a
bunch of links in it. It will make
sense. Do a FAQ timeline. It will create
an audio podcast. Um, by the way, Liz,
to your point about people continuing to
want to listen to this podcast. I hope
so. Um, I've had multiple people tell me
that the voice, the male voice in these
Notebook LM podcast sounds like me.
Well, that's true.
>> Even still, we're we're growing. So,
it's not killing big technology.
>> They want your perspective, not just the
sound of your voice, right?
>> Yeah. Welcome to the deep dive. I think
we're pretty close.
>> So, how's that product taking?
>> Uh the product, so neither Liz nor I
work on it. Um and uh but uh but the
product the product is doing well. Um
it's um uh uh it's also doing quite well
in in the education use case. It's quite
useful if you could upload your syllabus
or a study guide or um sort of point at
your textbook, things like that, uh to
actually uh to go to go deeper in a
topic. Um obviously the uh the podcast
version of it um uh um you know has
really taken off. We've brought some of
the podcast capabilities um into search.
Maybe you want to talk about the how
we've connected those back.
>> Yeah. Um so there's a there's a couple
of things within Discover. We've been
playing around with with daily digest
seeing okay you get in the morning ones
can you understand what some of the
different stories are. Um, we have a lab
where we're experimenting with if you
come to search and you issue a query um
for those who opt in, can you get a
short little podcast about the topic
that you ask about? Um, so it's great if
you're on the go and you don't want to
do this and you want to understand it.
Um, I think you have both a
conversational one like search live or
Gemini live, but sometimes there's a
different feel between you just asking
questions versus hearing people discuss
it. Um, so we're constantly playing
around with the with the general
technology of taking content and turning
it into a podcast is something that
notebook LM really piloted, but it's
making its way into other Google
products is relevant because it's just a
it's a it's a fun way to learn about
something going forward.
>> Okay. Uh, as we come close to an end
here, I want to just ask some bigger
picture questions.
>> I think there's like a there's two views
of how this is going. Like there's one
curve about that people think about with
generative AI that we've had great uh um
uh advances for a while and now it's
leveling off. And there's another curve
that people think about where like all
right this is cool but we're at the
beginning of an exponential and it's
about to get crazy personally. What
where do you both land on that?
>> I can go first.
>> Go for it.
>> Do you want to go first?
>> No, go ahead.
>> Um I I believe it's it's closer to the
latter. Um I think I think it's I think
I think it's um easy to underestimate
where a technology is kind of uh when
you're uh when you're in it. But uh
actually the way I see it sort of the
most um uh is there are at least from
the point of view of search there are so
many questions that we have in our heads
that we're not asking. um the amount of
information that uh that people are
interested in, would be interested to
consume is so much vast is so much more
vast than what what um what what people
do. We've we we've said this before, one
of the great things about our our
mission um is that at any given point in
time, we're barely scratching the
surface of um of of what that mission
can be. And so, uh, you know, I said
this earlier, the the,
um, the opportunity that generative AI
technology brings for a product like
search is massively vast and I think
we're really, really early on in it.
>> What do you think, Liz?
>> I'd also agree it's very early. Um, I
think one thing in particular is the the
models are getting much better at
reasoning and they're also getting much
better at tool use. And LM are great at
a set of things. They're not great at
everything. Um, we have great tools that
exist in the world for other things. But
if you can now teach an LLM to use
tools, what does that now enable? And to
use multiple tools across, right? Um, so
you take something like you have a
trivia question about finance. LMS are
great about reasoning through it, but
you don't want them to make up the
numbers. They're not going to know what
the latest financial data are. But if
they can go query a database we have of
real- time finance data, real-time
sports data, and then pull it together
and ask the question, then you can ask
much more interesting questions than you
could previously asked on search, but
they're grounded in actual data. They're
not just made up numbers. And so I think
particularly a bunch of the reasoning,
the tool use, the agent capabilities,
um, they will really unlock a lot. Um,
and then just to double down on Nick's
point,
whether or not somebody asks a question
isn't just a question about whether or
not they had a question. It's whether or
not it was worth their time. Right.
>> Right. And and so people do that
question, right? You were curious about
the flower, but if you had to figure out
how to describe the flower in words,
no way. So, you didn't ask the thing.
Okay. But then now you can take a
picture of it and now you ask the
question, right? It wasn't there was it
wasn't like suddenly people became
curious about what the flower was or
your plant is dying and now people take
a picture and say why is it dying how do
I help it they cared about whether their
plant was dying they just they just
didn't know what to do about it right
and so there's a lot of possibility to
open up when you just lower the barrier
to information access lower the barrier
to information understanding um the last
thing I think that's kind of uh still
very underexplored is transforming
content right we talked about the um
podcasts from Notebook LM. Um but just
this ability to take content in in one
form and and transform it into another
without so much work I think is both
exciting from a search perspective
because people learn differently. Um
people are in different environments
where where they can get it. Um but also
from a creator perspective. You're
creating content. Do you have to create
the content in every single form or can
you create the content in a podcast and
easily turn it into a nice article and
then easily turn it into short clips of
video? Um, and so I think there's a lot
of possibility there around that sense
of like remixing content in a way that's
interesting.
>> Very interesting. So you've both been at
Google for 22 years.
>> Did you start? Were you in the same
orientation with those? Did they have
the spinny hats?
>> We were on different coasts.
>> We were in I was in New York.
>> Okay.
>> I spent 10 years in New York.
>> All right. I was in Mountain View.
>> Okay. It's a long time at Google. Where
does this era rank on the level of
change
>> most exciting?
>> But I want to know about like so
obviously you've seen shift from desktop
to mobile. You've probably seen like the
cloud shift as well, shift from portals
to search. Where is this the number one
shift like the most intense shift or is
this like somewhere in the middle?
>> I think it is the most There's always
there's always like recency bias and
things like this. To me, it feels like
Google when when I started that there's
a
uh there's a there's a strong feeling of
the sky's is the limit. There's a
there's a strong feeling of of of
opportunity.
Um paired with the ability to we are
shipping in search at a pace I can't
even like it's such a fast pace I can't
even remember. Um, and that's fun
because the technology is fundamentally
enabling um us to do things that we
might have might have only dreamed about
doing uh before. And so um you know
again we don't see these things as scary
and so it's not um
>> I didn't ask which is the number one
fearful moment.
>> It's um uh it's it's just a really
exciting and and um and uh and fun time.
>> Okay. I think um in search in particular
like there have been many technology
shifts but this is a technology shift
like at the heart of what search is
right about understanding information
and ability to organize when you go back
to our our mission organizing
information making it useful making it
universally accessible um so it's a
technology shift that's right at the
root of that and and so that makes it
exciting and I think we we have a lot of
um folks in search that have been in
search for quite a long time um and they
have been trying their ideas.
>> Mhm.
>> For many years, right? Um you know,
sometimes people think, oh, when when we
ship it, it's the first time we thought
of it. No, actually often times we
thought of the idea 15 years ago, 10
years ago, 5 years ago, you tried, it
didn't work. You tried, it didn't work.
Or you tried and it was more
incremental. You can make a little bit
of progress. Suddenly, we're at a time
where you try those ideas and you're
like, "Wow, I can I can probably do them
this time." Right? Um oh, I cannot just
do small tweaks and make a little bit of
progress. I can make big jumps. And
that's that's really exciting to people
because it, you know, you you work hard.
You're building a product for multiple
billions of people, which is just a a
daunting thing at its heart. Um, but now
you're like, "Wow, I can bring this to
life for billions of people, and that
makes it really exciting."
>> I have two more questions. Can we just
lightning round through them both?
>> Let's do it.
>> U, I asked Sergey when we were at IO
what the web looks like in 10 years, and
he's like, I'm not even going to begin
to attempt. What does the web look like
in five years?
What is uh it's a long time um right now
you got you got people guessing AGI and
two right um uh I think if we do our job
right um the web feels like it is filled
with um really rich and interesting
content um where people where creators
feel like it's one of the most um
thriving times where they can bring
their perspective where anyone can come
and share their content and and be
discovered and connected with people. Um
I think it is probably um even more
multimodal, multiiformat. Like I would
certainly expect video to continue to
grow. I would certainly expect audio and
not just you know text with some images
to grow. So I think you'll see more and
more of um uh different types of content
that people do. Um but I um I think if
if we all collectively but but certainly
Google search which has as has a key
role do our job right then you see
content really thriving.
>> The thing I'd add is I think the web
will be much bigger. I think um I think
there will be
>> I think the other thing that we haven't
talked much about I think I think um
this moment will also lower the barrier
for creation of content and we and we
see that happening a lot. We see that
with things like V3. Um but I think the
barrier for creation of content
uh multimodal but as um attacks as well
will come down quite a bit. I think that
will enable um an explosion of a
creation of content as well.
>> Okay, here's my last one. We've talked
about this moment of reinvention for
Google. We've talked about some of the
um speed bumps that you've put in for
yourself or these these moments where
like you don't want to go too far
because you might lose uh user trust.
And you've both said that we're at the
beginning of an exponential. So, do you
ever worry that even though you're in
reinvention mode and changing a lot that
you're not changing fast enough to get
ahead of this?
Um my view is um
I mean I think you always worry about
that right like you you I think you
always worry uh are you prioritizing the
right things um um are you doing the
right things are are are you doing it
fast enough so um for sure speed for
sure speed matters it's um it's one of
the things that Liz has you know we
we've sort of collect collect
collectively been emphasizing
um uh with the teams
Um again,
you know, we take this responsibility
very very seriously that we have and so
um uh so so I think we need I think we
need to build quickly. I think we need
to experiment quickly and then we need
to make sure that we're shipping um to
our to the billions of users who use
Google um when things are ready and and
so that that's the approach we need to
take. Um does that enable us to go fast
enough? I think it's a good qu I think
that's a good question but um but we're
not willing to sacrifice the trust of
our users um and we take the
responsibility of those users seriously
so um you know we do it as quickly as we
as is reasonable
take us on
>> I think you know I think I am probably
both uh personalitywise a reward and
part of my job is to always obsess with
that question right are are you doing
enough how can you go faster um without
breaking not at the expense of trust but
can you go faster can you do a better
job can you raise the bar. Um, and so we
spend I spend a lot of time with my team
just always asking the question, how can
how can we be more effective? Um, and I
think being obsessed with like the
alternative of not worrying is being
complacent. Um, and so I don't want to
be complacent. I'd rather worry. All
right. And focus on
>> Liz and Nick, it was great speaking with
you. Uh, I've appreciated our
conversations through the years and I
hope to continue them.
>> Thank you.
>> We hope to be back.
>> Oh, you will as long as you want to.
Okay. Thank you everybody for listening
and we'll see you next time on Big
Technology Podcast.