Amazon Head Of Prime on Tariffs, Alexa Plus Rollout, and AI Differentiation — With Jamil Ghani
Channel: Alex Kantrowitz
Published at: 2025-04-30
YouTube video id: J8nT1BN6ODY
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8nT1BN6ODY
What is Amazon seeing in the early days of the trade war? And how will Alexa Plus change shopping and perhaps much more? That's coming up with the head of Amazon Prime in a very busy week in Amazon land right after this. Welcome to Big Technology Podcast, a show for coolheaded nuance conversation of the tech world and beyond. We're joined today by Jani. He's the VP of Amazon Prime in an exceptionally busy week in Amazon land where the company seems like it's at the center of the news cycle in the trade war. We're going to touch on that, but we're really going to have a conversation about the future of shopping uh in in AI bots and whether Alexa plus will live out that vision and maybe compete with Chat GPT one day. So, it's going to be a fascinating conversation and I'm so glad to welcome you to the show. Welcome Jamil. Great to see you. Great. Great to see you. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, definitely great to have you here. We're going to talk all about what's going on with Amazon uh with Alexa Plus and Amazon Prime. But of course, I would be remiss to start this interview without a mention of what's going on in the news. We're recording on Tuesday, April 29th for a publication date of Wednesday, April 30th. So, this is right when the news is happening. Kind of a crazy moment uh for Amazon. And honestly, when you logged on today, I was glad to see your face. Guess I'm glad that you decided that this was still worth doing because this is what's happening uh for for listeners and viewers. So uh first of all, Punch Bowl News, a publication in Washington DC, reported that Amazon is going to start displaying how much an item co items cost is derived from tariffs right next to the product products total listing price. Um the Wall Street the the White House then responded. White House spokesperson Caroline Levit told uh a group of reporters told the White House briefing room uh that Amazon's decision to label tariff price hikes was hostile and political action. And then another report showed up moments later where an Amazon spokesperson said uh this was never under consideration for the main Amazon website and it was something discussed uh for Amazon Hall which is Amazon's Shien and Timu uh competitor. Basically if you want to buy something for $20 or less uh some products you might get that notification. Um Jal, could you just confirm with us here that that is indeed what the story is going to be that the main Amazon site is not going to have those uh tariff uh prices and if they are going on hall or if they are under consideration for hall, what's the thought behind that? Yeah. Um thanks for the question. So, just to be super clear, the team that runs our ultra lowcost Amazon Hall store considered the idea of listing import charges on certain products. This was never approved and it's not going to happen. So, this isn't happening at all. No, it's a the information is incorrect. Okay. So, I'm just going to make sure I'm clear. Whether it's Amazon Hall, whether it's Amazon's main site, we are never going to see tariff charges anywhere on Amazon. You know, it's this is a incredibly dynamic situation and never and always are difficult questions. But this was considered for our ultra- lowcost store alone, Amazon Hall. It was considered, it was not approved, it's not happening, it was not considered for our main site. Okay. Well, thank you again. It's always great to be able to speak with people in your position because we can sort of make sense of the headlines. When it's true, we'll find out. And when it's a little off or a lot off, we'll also find out. So, I appreciate you clarifying that for us right off the bat. Now, let's talk about tariffs more broadly. I'm just curious from your perspective. I mean, right now we're in this position where we have this 90-day pause before a lot of the global tariffs are going to go into place, but there is 145% tariff coming in from China. You're the head of Amazon Prime. What are tariffs doing right now uh to the Amazon marketplace and to Amazon first-party sales? Yeah, I think the important thing is to ground in first principles. Our our objective always has been will continue to be serving customers having an exceptional customer experience. Um in order to do that over the last many years, we've you know been been offering uh our services in the US since the mid90s. uh we've been diversifying our supply chain and so that is not related to the current situation. That's been a a event kind of gradual process we've led through in order to work with sellers and vendors all around the world. Um and that's just good business in order to ensure that that superb customer experience. The current situation is it's super dynamic to say the least and so we're navigating it to make sure that we serve customers really well. We're working closely with our seller and vendors all around the world to ensure that there's as minimum disruption to the customer experience as possible. Um you know the economic situation uh uh is uncertain. Um and so you see that in consumer uh spending behavior. But the good thing is that uh Amazon continues to be focused on the three key principles that have mattered to customers always and we think will continue to matter to customers which is the you know largest selection possible at the most compelling prices delivered uh as fast as possible and as conveniently as possible and you know that's what we're focused on at Amazon in our store and uh in particular for our prime members who are our most engaged customers. Okay. Okay. So, I definitely want to talk about the flywheel because I have some questions about that regarding tariffs. But first of all, you mentioned that you're diversifying. You've diversified your supply chain and I've got some numbers that I'm looking at and I'm kind of curious if you could comment on them about how much of Amazon's supply chain is uh stemming from China. So, the numbers I see is that a decade ago there were 20% of third party Amazon sellers based in China. Uh today it's 65%. So, I'm curious if you could share whether that is ballpark accurate or accurate in and of itself. And when it comes to diversifying your supply chain, is that large of a reliance on China a good thing? Yeah, I can't comment on the specific numbers um uh right now, but I can tell you that we work with sellers and vendors all around the world. Over that period, our business has also grown substantially, right? And we have um uh more ways for customers to get access to more categories, 35 categories uh of products across our store in the US. And so um we work with uh sellers and vendors based in China. Uh but we work with um sellers and vendors all around the world. And so we feel like uh we can navigate the current situation um to ensure that you know superlative customer experience. Okay. I won't hammer home on this too much, but I just want to ask you one more question about that. Um, I think the experience from a lot of shoppers, you know, when you're I'm an Amazon shopper, we have many listening. I think it's more popular than cable in the United States, definitely than church. Um, so when you're an Amazon shopper, you have noticed that there's definitely been an increase in Chinese vendors. And um I just wonder if there's going to be if there is like some liability from uh putting having so many Chinese sellers on Amazon. Not that I have anything against Chinese sellers. I bought lots of stuff from them. But if China and the United States can have this moment where they're trying where they're sort of peeling away their trade agreements. Um is that a how how does a company like Amazon deal with that? Yeah, I think um our company is founded on the fundamental belief that customers value choice. Um that is true in the selection we offer. That's in um true in the the vendors and sellers in which we engage. Any one item often times has multiple buying options that might meet different needs that customers have. Same is true with the speeds we offer, etc. And so, um yeah, I I think the current moment is what it is. uh we're going to continue to have a marketplace that has a diversity of product selection available a variety of ways. Um and that might eb and flow given sort of macro external uh um uh kind of factors. But we think that we have a a resilient business because we give customers so much choice. um uh you just go to any category and I think customers are universally better off because they can use search, use recommendations, find exactly the the item they want but also have that to compare against all the different options available to them. And so that might eb and flow given the current situation but that fundamental belief in uh giving customer choice and having a great customer experience kind of I think is enduring. So you don't think that Amazon has overindexed on China and even if these tariffs stay in place, do you think the experience is going to basically stay the same? I think um we have uh sought to meet customer demand uh and what uh uh you know what does well in the store is what customers want to engage with. Um and so uh we're reacting to that, right? We don't have a a uh we have a store that we want to work for that uh we've set up that we think has um uh efficient search uh you know great navigation, great personalization, a fantastic supply chain to make the post-purchase experience fantastic. Um and uh what shows up in the store is a result of customer interest and customer demand. Um and so uh you know we we on the back end of it diversified that to be resilient as a business and as a supply chain. Um, but I think the experience is meeting customer needs and uh it will continue to do so. That's what we're focused on is making sure that we have the right selection in the store um to meet that customer demand. Okay. So, let's talk a little bit about the Amazon flywheel, right? The best selection at the best price delivered to you in the best possible way and probably in the speediest time. Um, I wonder what's going to happen with the sellers uh in this moment because I'm sure you've seen there's the report that came out in Reuters a couple days ago talking about how some sellers are not going to participate in Prime Day where they traditionally give discounts because they see that they're they want to make their inventory last and they're less interested in discounted discounting because if this holds then they're going to need basically everything that they've brought in pre-tariffs. Uh, are you gonna and I think Prime Day is coming up in July, so there's still some time. Any concern about the robustness of Prime Day because of a trend like this from sellers? Yeah, the signals so far, Alex, are strong. Um, the the kind of uh the work we've been doing with uh sellers and vendors to uh get ready for Prime Day is off to a great start, pacing exactly where we want it to pace. Um, I've seen the reporting as well. There's always going to be situations and you know it is an an unprecedented moment uh that all of us are navigating here but so far the uh signals are that it's going to be a fantastic Prime Day and we're looking forward to you know having you know record setting deals attracting um a record setting number of Prime members to join Prime like we have in in previous times with Prime Day and Prime big deal days in the fall. Okay, so now I kind of have to get to some of the vibes questions. Um, what is the vibes among sellers? I mean, are they feeling like this is going to shake their business up or I mean, I imagine there's a lot of disruption right now. Yeah, I think the sentiment amongst uh sellers is uh much like where we started this conversation, which is it's a it's a complicated, rapidly changing environment. It's hard to know um you know uh at any given moment where things stand, but um uh you know the the sellers and vendors we work with um are aligned with us on making sure that we have a great customer experience in the store. And so we're working productively together to make sure that we don't have um we have the selection available, inventory is available, the event is going to be fantastic and you know every day uh as well. It isn't just about Prime Day, although Prime Day is really important to them and to us. Um, it's also ensuring we have a a good everyday shopping experience on the the three aspects that you highlighted before. So, you know, everybody's everybody's sort of navigating as the situation develops. And what about the vibe among consumers? I'm kind of curious. It sounds like there might have been a rush to buy stuff before the Liberation Day tariffs went into play. Did you see that? And have you seen any pullback uh since? Yeah, we haven't we haven't seen anything material in the numbers as yet. Like there's been there's been sort of like variations that are hard to tell from, you know, like uh from just normal variations you'd see in the business. Um um I think in if if Prime Day this year operates like Prime Day in recent years where there are sort of other macroeconomic factors like during the pandemic, I would expect that you will see uh consumers stocking up to take advantage of deals. I know in my household, I have, you know, a 8-year-old, a four-year-old, and a 10-month-old uh daughters. Uh our household needs a lot of things to run. Um, and so we definitely take advantage of the Prime exclusive savings to stock up on stuff that we know that we're going to end up needing for our household or for our our family. Um, and so I'd expect that the same will be true for for Prime Day this year, if not more so for the reasons that you cited. But let's take Prime Day out of it. I mean, what is the current vibe among consumers? You know, Amazon touches so many millions of consumers and I mean, that's a sort of jargony way to say people shopping for stuff. Yeah. Are you seeing any hesitance to show up in the numbers given the uncertain economic climate right now? I think we we continue to see strength in the part of the business that's growing the fastest, which is uh our everyday essentials and our groceries and what have you, which is which is a you know a push we've been making for years now, speeding up how quickly you can get the things you need to run a busy household. Um so that continues to be really robust and you you see strength across um the store because our prices are very competitive. Um you know the speeds continue to be very very strong. So the the the business is is robust. Prime membership continues to grow all around the world including the US. So um we're seeing resilience as of today. But there is there you know there's there's a lot of macro factors on on uh on uh consumers minds. But Amazon against that backdrop tends to do quite well because we've organized our business to make sure that we have the best selection at the lowest prices delivered really fast like you said earlier. Yeah. So just to sum up sum this part up and then we can move on to the more fun stuff. Um it seems like what you're saying is even if we see an enduring trade war and I I'm kind of skeptical that we'll see much more of this. Um Amazon should be in a good place because it sources from countries outside of China. uh because it's able to sort of shift things within the business quickly and could even gain uh where you see maybe some others who don't have that much flexibility struggle to make sense of it. Is that the right way to read this? I think that's a good summary. I think that's a great summary. We have a very resilient business that's focused on first and foremost serving customers. And in doing so, we we sort of had engineered our business behind the scenes to make that possible. And whether it's uh trade disruption or the pandemic or economic softness for other reasons, um we've the business has tended to do well because customers can trust Amazon to give them the selection at the best prices and deliver it really fast. Yeah. Well, you're good at saying that slogan. though. But that has been that has been what's worked for Amazon for so long. All right. Uh look, Jal, this is I I know you have to be very careful in some of these answers like uh seems like a misreported nugget in Punch Bowl sent uh the White House steaming at Amazon uh just a few hours ago. Uh that being said, uh I appreciate you being willing to field these questions and to speak with me about it. So, thank you for that. Of course. Thank you for the questions. All right, let's talk about AI uh Alexa Plus in particular. Uh where where is Alexa plus? Because I was at the event as were you in February. I think it was February 26th and on stage we heard Panos talk about how this is coming out in you know next month which would be March and we're here at the end of April and I know uh Alexa Plus has rolled out for some people but not the masses yet. So what's going on with that product? Yeah, it's it's uh we're we're rolling it out. Um uh we're we're being um really deliberate about that roll out. It's a like we talked about then and I can overview now. It's a incredibly significant com you know rethink and rearchitecture of a service enjoyed by you know 500 600 million devices around the world. Um and so uh we want to do that really really well and we don't want to disrupt the experience that customers have come to rely on. Um uh the feedback has been positive. uh it uh we're finishing up the product and we're uh looking to scale that in the coming weeks to significantly more uh customers, but it's it's underway. Um but um we want to get it right. Uh I want to have a superlative experience. Um so uh it's going going to plan. So I probably should have asked this question when Panos was in. Um when do you think that we can expect to see a full roll out of this product? I mean, I understand the desire to get it right, but I think I and many people who watched that event were like, "Oh, like I'm going to get Alexa Plus next month." It's not it's not with us yet. So, um, the full roll out, is that months away? Is that next year? What do we what can we expect on that front? Um, I don't have a specific date to offer you today because we're we're adjusting the timelines and, you know, uh, according to the roll out. Um but in the in the in it's months it's not next year. Okay. So this year what have you guys learned in testing Alexa plus I mean what in the early moments you can you talk a little bit about what's resonated and maybe give a little explanation since I've like now you know cited it but let's we could also take a step back and talk about what exactly it's going to do. Yeah. So uh that's a good place to start. Um, the in my own words, the way I describe Alexa Plus, it's a it's a it's the new version of Alexa, which um is much more conversational, much more uh intelligent, um, and it's more actionoriented. I can talk about uh, all of those pieces. Conversational in that, um, it can go back and forth with you, uh, engaging on a topic of interest, on a a task of interest, you know, all the things you you want to do. And I'll talk about all the things you can do with it in just a minute. It's more intelligent because it is um been trained on a corpus of knowledge um you know world knowledge Amazon specific knowledge about the product catalog about prime videos catalog music etc etc um and it's more actionoriented it can do things on your behalf whether it's on one end sort of um making it really simple to manage your calendar um to using uh the other prime benefits shopping video music etc etc., etc., to doing things out in the quote unquote real world, book you an Uber, uh, you know, uh, get you a, uh, a handy person to come to your house to fix something, um, and everything in between. And so, um, I I look forward to telling you about how my household has been using it because it's it's sort of like quint they're the best anecdotes of like what we're learning because, yeah, the bottom line is we're learning that uh, our customers are using it for a whole host of things. Um, and that's exciting because it is a very flexible uh personalized experience much more so than the uh classic Alexa. Okay. So, how's it uh coming to use in your family's house? Yeah. So, um I um married um I have three young daughters, 8, four, and 10 months like I said before. Uh so, just let's just say it's sort of like controlled chaos is the way to describe the household. Two working parents. Um and so, you know, I'll give you some anecdotes of real things. rewind to to October. My older two daughters were uh uh convinced that they wanted to be ninjas. And so they thought it would be fun to go up to uh uh Alexa Plus and ask for suggestions on what the baby could be dressed up as. And so they described in their own parliament. I'm just listening, you know, in the kitchen while I'm doing something else. Hey, we're going to be ninjas. What would be really funny? Because of course it's eight-year-old humor. It's like what would be really funny for Juliana to be? And um uh Alexa Plus came back and suggested that the baby should dress up like a sushi roll. Um and then I had a clickable link for same day delivery of the costume from Amazon.com. So close that loop very simply. I then said, "Oh, this is really interesting." Like, so it's like, "Oh, what about a different idea that is more in the theme of ninjas as warriors?" And so then it came up with another costume which was a little shogun uh with a mustache for the baby. I'm like, we're rolling here and I'm like, this is great. And we end up getting the sushi roll and the baby was a sushi roll for uh for Halloween. Um so, you know, close that loop in, you know, it was like a delightful experience and also closed a to-do for mom and dad in the in the course of just a couple minutes. Um another example, um you know, uh lots of snacks in our household as you would imagine, uh with growing kids. Uh my wife walks out of um the cupboards, searching around the cupboards, looking for this particular uh snack bar that they like called Go Macro Bars. And she turns to Alexa Plus, he's like, "Alexa Plus, let's order Alexa, let's order some uh Go Macro bars." And so responds, it's like, "Oh, you've purchased this flavor. There's also this these other two flavors." Oh, that's interesting. Let's do this third flavor. Great. It's like, you've previously purchased a sixcount box. I noticed that there's singles and there's also a case for the other room. I say, "Oh, how much is the case per per unit because I was like, I'd love to save some money." And it calculated it on the fly and told me that. My wife then said, continued the conversation. He said, "Oh, let's get a case of the I think it's blueberry or something. Um, uh, and let's go ahead and check out." We checked out and it was at our doorstep by 5:00 p.m. that afternoon. That was like a minute. No phones were taken out. We could do that while we were helping the girls with other things. And those those are just two of a hundred examples like that where it's a it's just sort of a a much more assistive assistant. It's like able to do more and close the loop on fun things and also very practical things that a household needs to do. You know, it's interesting, Jamil, because when you talked that you told me that your daughters were talking to Alexa Plus, I was like, "Oh, um, maybe this version, this newer version of Alexa is going to be something like a comp a companion." Because there are seemingly two different types of ways that people are building this. And I'd be very curious to get your perspective on this. It seems like some are building these AI assistants as true assistants, things that will help you get stuff done and others are trying to build it as a companion. Uh, it was very interesting. I had like backto-back conversations uh with Panos and Daniel talking about Alexa Plus and then Mustafoson at Microsoft talking about Copilot. And it seems like Amazon's version or vision for this assistant is to be assistive and help you get stuff done where Microsoft's vision is for it to be a personality. Do you see that both these uh both these types of visions diverging and some companies building this assistant style type of chatbot and others saying this is going to be a companion? Yeah, it's interesting you used a word there personality. Um I think either can have personality. We Alexa has a personality and Alexa plus it takes that to the next level. Um and it it's it's fun, it's whimsical, it's got a sense of humor, but it is very helpful. Very very helpful. And so yes, we are absolutely building an assistant that is assistive that is helpful that is there to make life easier from you know lots of wants uh lots of needs definitely into wants as well. We can talk about kind of how it makes entertainment better. Um, and others are choosing other paths. As a as a as a user of other services as well, you know, from a from my own research and learning standpoint, I I I recognize the split, but I think uh it would be incorrect to say that um Alexa being helpful means that she doesn't have a personality. She absolutely does have a personality. And one of the things I love most is the ability to uh prompt Alexa with memories, asking her to remember something. So, for example, she remembers birthdays. She remembers that my eldest daughter prefers vegetarian food, but also does eat meat occasionally. And so, when she makes recommendations for restaurants for us to go out to as a family or or what have you or recipes to make at home, she, you know, takes that into consideration. That is being really helpful, but she does it in a way that it doesn't feel um clinical. It feels very much like integrated into kind of our life. Um you made a point about the kids conversing. Um there you know Alexa plus also uh you know we have uh kids plus for uh our kids um which is like books and content and what have you that they enjoy um uh there there's a feature to create stories with uh Alexa um and we sit and do that and it lets the kids kind of uh you know have a have an experience a really safe experience with generative eye creating a story that's delightful for them. It's something we do together as a family. It's not a replacement obviously for um you know the time we spend with them. It's you know it's adding a new dimension to that time. Let me ask the question in a better way. Yeah. So what Mustafa said straight up was that personality is going to be the differentiator for AI bots. And so I'm curious again do you believe that Alexa's personality is going to be the differentiator or the things it enables you to do? H uh thank you for the reframe. I think that the personality is helpful but I think ultimately um uh I believe we believe that um uh Alexa will be um indispensable because she's helpful because she could get things done for you. She can help you with managing your calendar reminders. She can help you, you know, uh, get access access to the right content. It can, she can help you shop. She can help you do other services. And that list of services will will grow and grow with time. You saw some of those in the demo in for the early days. Um, I think that's really what is going to be a differentiator for Alexa and the fact that she's present in the devices we all have in our homes. Um, um, and new devices that are coming that are take that are purpose-built to take advantage of Alexa Plus. Okay. And that brings us to another interesting wrinkle here. So on our Friday show last week, we talked about how OpenAI is, you know, potentially we I didn't get confirmation, but they just announced shopping this week, so we can assume that it's happening. Uh the shopping integration within Chat GPT at this moment is going to be basically surfacing um different products and images of products and allowing you to kind of sort through the things you want to shop. and then I think sending you off of chat GPT to go make a purchase. But there was also uh some screenshots of code that may show them um being in the works of trying to build Shopify checkout directly into OpenAI and we were talking about the fact that people love Prime because they trust Prime for the reasons that you brought up earlier. there's the a great selection, uh, good pricing, and it's going to get to you faster than almost anybody will. Like, we now see that you can basically order some stuff on Prime and it will get to you later that day. Um, and people are starting to trust Chat GPT in a in an interesting but different way, right? It becomes a companion to them. And there was a HB a Harvard Business Review story recently talking about how like the change uh for chatbots have gone from idea generation to companionship. So what's happening now is Chad GPT is becoming a companion to people. It's their their research assistant. It's their con conversation partner which is similar to what you want to do uh I think with Alexa plus. Um, and you know what happens then if people start to trust these bots so much that they say what product do you recommend and similar to the trust in prime now they're going to trust chat GPT because they trust it to do so many things in their life and then they can go shop through their chat bots. So, I'm kind of curious what you think about that and whether you think you might end up seeing Chachi BT kind of enter this game in a way that maybe people didn't previously anticipate. Yeah, I I think about this a lot. Um I I go back to um what we have tried to do over the years with Amazon Prime is um we obviously started in 2005 with 1 million items available in two-day delivery and that was gamechanging at the time. you remember what shopping was online in 2005 and delivery fees and the imprecision of delivery and the I don't even know if it's going to arrive on time uh was kind of like the the key friction we all faced. Um and we we removed that friction by saying hey don't worry about how what your order size is. Don't worry about when it's going to arrive. Is this going to arrive on time? We guarantee it. So on and so forth um on basically everything we sold at the time. And we've grown that proposition uh over the years. And then in 2011, we added the ability to have that same level of convenience in video and music and gaming and reading and all these other benefits that get transformed. And what you have today is a program that I I think is a companion to so many households, not here, just here in the US, but you know, over 200 million households around the world where it's like it's hard to imagine running life without Amazon Prime, right? Um and so Alexa plus being a part of Prime um included at no additional cost for our members extends that idea in the way that you're describing which is um whether you shop on desktop or you shop in the mobile app or increasingly you turn to a voice assistant whether they're you know on the on the Alexa device an Echo device or in your pocket. um we just want to make it really simple for our members to take advantage of all that value, right? Um and so it's not surprising that um other services would want to integrate shopping to try to meet that need. I think what sets Prime apart is that it isn't just about having the item. It's about making sure that you have confidence in the price, making sure that it's going to arrive really fast at no additional cost. if something unfortunately goes wrong that companies stand behind it to make it right which we do with our a toz guarantee and so I I think um it's not surprising that others would go to that space but it's also um not any one thing that gives the entire prime experience I think it's a combination of you know sorry the selection the price and the and the supply chain uh invention that has happened over 25 years to you know have you know Last year we delivered 9 billion items same day or next day. 9 billion, right? Uh uh it is, you know, in delivery fees alone, US uh Prime members last year saved $500, right? That's multiples of what you pay for the membership, right? All of that is what's sitting behind Alexa Plus. Um and the the utility and the the the aid it's it's seeking to bring. And so like I think it's good that customers have lots of choices, but I think we've got kind of the special sauce to pull it together for our Prime members. Did I get it wrong? Did you refer to Amazon Prime as a companion? I I may have I may have echoed your your words there. Uh but I do I do think like I I think about my own household. Um, you know, uh, not to be not to be too much information, but like there I would not be the first dad to admit that I'm ordering the next box of diapers when I'm changing the last diaper because I realize that I forgot to get diapers. Um, like it makes life possible. Um, call it a companion, call it an assistant, call it, you know, a lifesaver. I think those are just semantics. At the end of the day, we want to be valuable and we measure quantitatively how much value members get and they're getting multiples of what they pay uh back in uh all the different benefits that they take advantage of. Can I ask you, do you think people are going to be friends with their chatbots? I think some will. I think like we we we live in a we live uh in a diverse world with a lot of interest and a lot of you know technology being used in a lot of different ways. I do I do think folks um will turn to um uh chat bots for all kinds of needs including companionship including you know uh a sounding board including all those things. I think all those things are possible. Our take on Alexa plus is we want to be um a you know conversational intelligent helpful assistant um uh to folks taking advantage of all the benefits that Prime offers um and and more. But if people are going to be friends, and I'll I'll let this go in a minute, but it's just so interesting. I mean, if they are going to be friends with their bots and they are going to be able it seems like they're going to be able to shop in every bot, uh doesn't make doesn't that make the personality side of this so much more important to Amazon? Because again, if you're going to be friends and a companion with a chatbot, uh or maybe it's a voice bot in in its next iteration, um if it if you trust it and it does the shopping research for you, then you buy there, that's all of a sudden it opens up completely new front uh that Amazon didn't have to deal with before. Well, yes and no. Like I I know it's not quite the same thing, but you you think about um folks were making predictions about um you know the the rise of e-commerce. It's like oh this is the this is the end of physical retail. That's that hasn't happened. We live in a we live in a diverse world where customers have lots of different interests, lots of different jobs to be done. And so there's a there's space for a lot of different solutions. And so yes, if some have uh uh com companion or or kind of like relationships or preferences um you know that will that will uh impact um uh shopping choices and choice of you know where they get their entertainment what have you. But the same is true with like was true with search engines and like people still go direct and you know people you know companies innovate um to to make sure that their value is clear to the customer. So I I think yes and is uh what I see coming. So then you know if you think about the different iterations of the web like you just brought up like Amazon's a website and an app and of course a voice interface with Alexa. Um if the next iteration of the web there's a chance that it might be is through these chat bots. Could you see a world where Amazon let's say partners with open AI to bring Amazon shopping into Jad GPT or does Alexa plus prevent you from doing something like that? Uh I can't comment on what we would or wouldn't do but you look at some stuff that we actually have done right like buy by buy with prime we're working with thirdparty direct to consumer sites to to uh bring the same you know prime delivery experience to third party sites. um like you could have rewind the clock five years ago and asked a question like would we ever do then I probably give you the same answer which is I can't comment on anything we might do in the future but you you fast forward to today and we want to we want to make it easier for customers and members to shop wherever they want to shop you know in addition we're now surfacing you know uh product that's on third party sites not listed on Amazon's marketplace uh so that you know if you're searching on Amazon.com or in app for XYZ brand and we don't happen to carry it uh we can uh we can facilitate you you know finding that and and going and shopping for it. So I think this will continue to evolve um um uh going forward. Uh we do think that um the combination of uh offerings we have uh we want to earn the business from customers directly. Um you know that's really important to us as it is to every company. Um, and uh, we're we're going to continue to do that, but you know, who we might work with in the future is like we'll see. But no talks with them right now to do something like that. Nothing nothing to share with you today, Alex. You want me to much as you would want me to share. Nothing to share. It's my job as a reporter to ask, but I respect my job. It's my job to hold the line. Exactly. All right. Look, we're doing what we can here. We're getting some good stuff. That's right. Do do you personally think that the that um generative AI is going to be a new a substitute for the web or sort of ingest the web in some way or do you think the web will remain what it is today? I don't think it'll remain the same, but I don't think it's going to ingest the web. Um I think I think like again I'm I'm a big believer that it like uh A does not become B. A and B come together to turn into this really interesting new C. uh because there's just lots of inventiveness going on. Um uh and I think that there will be uh elements of the day-to-day customer experience that will be you know fronted by Genai very strongly. Um you know I think a lot of productivity knowledge work will be will have like a sort of a you know a persistent assistant to help with a lot of that work. um then I think other elements um will be more classic web if you can call it that. Um um just like there's you know there's there's a big space in the retail space for walking into a store and having a a great customer experience in real life, right? Like that that is hard to it's hard to imagine replacing that need that we have as humans. Same is true in entertainment. Same is true in music. Same is true in grocery and healthcare and all the other aspects of the prime program. Okay. I just have one more uh Alexa plus question and then we're going to go to a quick break and talk about anthropic and some infrastructure stuff. I I have to ask you is is Alexa plus going to deliver? I mean you're using it but I'm in this moment where I heard Amazon make a promise about Alexa plus. I heard Apple make a promise about Apple intelligence. And I was speaking with this about this with Panos as well that like we see uh we've seen so many of these demos of this sort of all-encompassing uh contextually aware AI assistant but as of yet the general public hasn't seen it in in their hands. Now of course there's a minimal roll out at this point but just just assure us is this thing going to deliver? I I I think so. uh having used it now since uh late last year um it it is a step change experience from Alexa and Alexa's fairly integrated into my household uh with smartome and um uh you know uh access to entertainment etc etc. Um, this is a step change experience. Um, it uh it's taking advantage of, as Panov said in the in the uh demo back in February. Um, it's take the technology has caught up to the vision that we've had for Alexa for years, for 10 years. Um, and so I do think it's going to deliver. It's also going to get better and better because we are um working on kind of sort of natively built uh uses that take advantage of what uh the new Alexa can do um on the newest devices. And so, you know, where we start will not be certainly where we end. Um and so I I do have um uh high hopes for, you know, how valuable it's going to be to customers. Okay. Uh let's take a break and come back and talk about infrastructure, all the infrastructure that Amazon has built, its partnership with Anthropic, and maybe some more if we can get to it. We'll be back right after this. And we're back here on Big Technology Podcast with Jamil Ghani, the VP of Amazon Prime. Uh where to start, J? Okay, let's talk about infrastructure. There was a sense uh during the pandemic that Amazon kind of overbuilt uh but eventually those all that infrastructure, right? you like I don't know what did you double your warehouse footprint because the idea was people would just you know work from home shop from home. Um the idea was that that was a little bit too much uh because people went back to old habits but it would show up as a benefit because the company would just get much better logistically with all that investment. Is that is that true and is that playing out for you guys? Yeah. Yeah. So the I think the summary I would say is uh just tweaking a little bit what you said. We built as aggressively as we did in the pandemic in order to keep up with demand. We wanted to um ensure uh superlative customer experience. The first uh weeks months of the pandemic were unprecedented for us and everybody else given the supply chain disruptions. And so we we you know uh Prime became both on the delivery and shopping side and also on the entertainment side sort of be became indispensable uh for all of us around the world. Um and so we built up our um warehouse uh capacity really really rapidly. Um like you said of course then you know there as a lot of businesses there was a slowdown as the you know the the world opened up and so on so forth. The reality is while we've right-sized some parts of that supply chain footprint on the margin, we've largely grown our business into that capacity, right? And we've continued to invest in new capacity. We continue to invest in robotics um uh and you know keep on making our supply chain um more and more performant. The biggest change we've done is also flipping the supply chain to a regionalized supply chain which has put more inventory closer to the customer. Um, and that has sped up our speeds and also reduce our cost to serve. And so we've seen a lot of goodness um, in terms of the investments we've made. Uh, and we're happy we've made them and we'll continue making them going forward. Trying to think whether I should ask you this next question. All right, here it comes. No filter on this one. Um, I spoke with someone who used to work with Amazon who like basically said that um, I'm going to relay this in a less politically correct sentiment, but he was like um, people aren't unique that if you live in a certain zip code, you have similar habits and Amazon is aware that like let's say you have a community where like Northace North Faces are popular and people like to wind surf and so that stuff will all be loaded in the fulfillment center like effectively Amazon knows what you're going to do before you do. How do you feel about that assessment? Yeah, I think I think that's, you know, a spun a certain way. Here's what I would say. Yeah. Like we apply and we've been since the very beginning, we've been applying machine learning and advanced AI to better uh uh organize our supply chain to serve customers what they want when they want it as cost-effectively as possible, etc., etc. And so like any company that runs a supply chain and has to manage physical inventory, we have to be wise as to where to put that inventory, right? And so we use a whole host of signals to understand where does it make sense to put that inventory. Certain inventory is more centrally located because it's slower moving, certain inventory that is fast moving, uh is more decentralized, closer to the customer, you know, certain parts of the country. I grew up in Miami, Florida. Uh it was really hard to find fleece. I didn't even know what fleece was until I went to college in the northeast because you couldn't find it, right? This is before the days of e-commerce, but you couldn't find it in physical real real estate. So, it's not a new concept to say put the right products in the right place for the right customers. And so, that's that's my articulation. We we do that with uh you know, machines that help us uh do that at scale uh and do that efficiently and like I said, get a better cost to serve which we then pass on to customers through you know, fast speeds, right? Yeah. Hands off the wheel was the initial program. That's right. That I reported on deeply in my book. It continues to be it continues to be our our mantra of like to operate at our scale and our SLAs's and our customer bar. Uh you have to apply machines. And that's why AI is not a new thing. It's not a novelty for us. It's been core to how we run the business on the store side, but also on video, grocery across the board. we've we've applied um um you know the latest technologies on you know machine learning and otherwise to uh to to run the business at scale right and I guess that's one of the core leadership principles at Amazon is invent and simplify that's right that's right so you mentioned robotics a robotics question for you I think one of the big north stars for Amazon has been to create robots that not just shuffle the rock the racks around uh fulfillment center but actually pick the products out of the racks themselves uh and then maybe even pack them. Mhm. There's been some real advances in robotics. I don't know if you saw they ran a half marathon of robots in China a couple weeks ago. I did see that. Uh how far is Amazon or how far do you think the industry is from creating robots that can effectively pick those products? Um so I'm not a roboticist. Uh first thing although I did stay at a Holiday in Express last night. I know in all seriousness that's where it all happens. So I can't So I can't tell you I can't tell you how close or how far we are. I know that our latest gen um uh fulfillment center um uses robotics in a whole host of ways including sort of organizing on the belts and uh and what have you. um you know our vision is uh robotics and automation uh coexisting with uh associates sort of serving customers. And so um you know we're really thoughtful about where we apply automation, where we apply robotics um uh to make sure we have a you know a safe working environment for all of our associates. And so like we're going to continue innovating and you know uh periodically we're releasing sort of the nextg uh um fulfillment center and as we build them out we will apply the latest technology available but I I I don't I can't say how close or how far we are to any particular milestone. Yeah. Last week I was out I met the co-founder of this company Cobbot who was actually in Amazon fulfillment for quite some time and they have these like uh robots that look a little bit like the FC robots uh but they have these little pincers on them and they can kind of grab like a rack and push carts and things like that and are starting to do that in uh places like shipping terminals. So it's really it's really remarkable how fast it's it's coming along. And uh I think that's a whole another it's a whole another um kind of angle on that application of the advanced um kind of learning techniques and ML and AI. And so we're excited about it and we like we've been investing in robotics in our fulfillment centers for years. Um right and so this is just kind of continuing down the path certainly accelerating now. Yeah. Yeah, I've had a chance to come into a couple fulfillment centers and see them at work and it's it's pretty amazing. So, um let's end with Anthropic. Amazon, of course, has a very close partnership with Anthropic. Billions of dollars uh have been invested, but I guess the sense is that Anthropic has mostly been involved on the enterprise side, but then again, I was at the Alexa Plus reveal and saw Mike Kger, the head of product at Anthropic there. Mhm. So I want to ask you a little bit about how closely you're working with Anthropic and whether there could be more collaboration with the consumer uh application that they have. Claude, um I can't comment on anything we might be considering with Claude specifically, but we work very closely with Anthropic on a variety of different parts of our business. um obviously it was highlighted um uh uh in the Alexa plus event but uh we're working with uh Anthropic on other parts of the stores business and other parts of the business as well. So like um nothing to announce with Claude their uh consumerf facing um bot but um Anthropic is a close partner of ours uh on various parts of the business even beyond Alexa plus. Okay, so let's round out with this. Uh, Alexa Plus, when it rolls out, it's going to be free for Prime members or available, I think, at $19.99. That's correct. Per month. Uh, how did you come up with that? Because, uh, Prime cost $14.99. $14.99 a month. So, you could get Prime for $14.99 or you could get Alexa Plus without Prime for $5 more than that. How did you guys come up with that? Well, uh, we on the the pro the straight subscription for those that are not Prime members, um, we just kind of benchmarked on the value that we, uh, believe we are um, we're offering uh, and the, um, kind of market rate for for uh, assistance of that type. Although we think Alexa will be distinct in a bunch of ways, you and I have talked about. Um, in terms of Prime, like we're all about adding more and more valid to the Prime membership. these are our most engaged customers. Um, and uh, you know, we we obsess about making that membership more valuable today than it was yesterday. And so it was very easy for us to say like we should give it to our best customers. Um, uh, not only because it's going to be a the newest benefit, sort of think of it as a benefit vertical, an assistant that can help you do a bunch of things that you and I have talked about, but it's also going to make the existing prime benefits better. Right? Like I gave you a couple examples, but we've had the similar anecdotes in our household and finding exactly the right mood music in, you know, in natural language, just like going back and forth. This is the vibe I'm going for, Alexa. Like, can you help me find songs that are blah blah blah blah for this kind of, you know, event with my with my daughters? Um or, you know, a piece of content on Prime Video. You saw some of that showcased in the in the launch event. So, um I think it's going to make Prime itself better in addition to being our latest benefit. And so, uh, we wanted to bring that to our to our, uh, best customers, our Prime members. I see. I think it would be ridiculous to sign up and pay five extra dollars for a service that is included in Prime for five less, but you never know what people want to do. I hope I hope uh, folks I hope folks uh, will will check out Prime because it's going to be, you know, get them Alexa Plus, but a whole lot more as well. And, um, I think it's a I think it's a good deal. So 200 million, if I'm right, 200 million members of Prime Plus 200 million plus members of Prime over 200 million members in 25 countries. Yeah, we just uh we just launched our 25th country. $139 a year or $14.99 a month. No price increases coming with Alexa Plus or we have to stay tuned. No, nothing to share. We're, you know, we're focused uh like always on adding more and more value and then periodically we examine the price, but nothing to share. Well, J, it's always great to speak with you. Now, this is our second time talking. We spoke at the Alexa Plus event. I've enjoyed both times uh tremendously. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for telling us more about everything going on with Alexa Plus uh with Amazon and for fielding the questions and for uh respectfully taking some of my um reporter digging and and not getting mad at me. So, thank you for that at all. I appreciate it. Thanks. I enjoyed it, Alex. Thank you so much. Definitely. People want to learn more about Alexa Plus, where do they go? uh they can go to uh amazon.com uh and uh search for Alexa plus and they can land and learn all about its capabilities. Okay, awesome. And I definitely recommend people uh check out the interview I did with Panos Pane a couple weeks ago and Daniel Rash was there too, the head of Alexa. So, you're going to want to see that. All right, everybody. We'll be back on Friday with Ran Roy to break down the week's news. Until then, we'll see you next time on Big Technology