iPhone16 Arrives + Apple Intelligence Delays
Channel: Alex Kantrowitz
Published at: 2024-09-11
YouTube video id: BpyeQ5-0CIQ
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpyeQ5-0CIQ
the iPhone 16 is here but a lot of Apple intelligence is not we'll talk about what it means and what Apple the company is becoming right after this welcome to Big technology podcast a show for cool-headed nuance conversation of the tech world and Beyond the biggest event of the year for Apple has arrived and it happened on Monday a special Monday event for them because they wanted to miss the presidential debate and get out ahead of all of that news so the iPhone 16 is here and so is Ronan Roy joining us uh in a in a new slot because we didn't want to wait till Friday to break down what this release and the absence of many Apple intelligence features means so we're going to do it today on a Wednesday forget the flagship interview it's the two of us back together again here breaking down the apple event ronjan welcome back to the show did you bring me in just to hear how sad I am about that event there is uh we didn't know initially that Siri would be as disappointing as as it was but um maybe in the back of my head I thought I couldn't let this week go by without hearing the emotional response from you to what we saw on Monday I'd ra you're right I'd rather get this out of the way earlier rather than later so it's fresh so it's really when I'm when I'm deeply affected by this so let's go okay and it's interesting that right off the bat we're talking about Siri and usually like Siri is a conversation that we have around worldwide developers conference and with the phone we talk about hardware and with the iPhone 16 we've gone from iPhone 15 to iPhone 16 the entire discussion around this new phone has not been about Hardware upgrades and there have been a couple of them there it's a little bit faster it has this new camera button but entirely about the hype around art uh Apple intelligence which is Apple's AI push within the phone and sort of the delays around the features that we are not going to see as this phone rolls out at least not initially so was that the Highlight for you I mean we could talk a little bit about the phones features but to me the big Story coming out of this was this was a hardware event with a software focus and the software wasn't there yet it was a very weird week for Apple highlight is a very generous term there perhaps low light but yeah I'm sensing a little disappointment in your voice by the way this was not planned we haven't talked about this before we have not talked about this Alex is hearing this fresh this is a therapy session for me I was hoping for something dramatic in terms of Apple intelligence and I think the most disappointing part for me was when they debuted this I believe it was in June the initial launch of this is going to be apple intelligence this is going to change everything here's these incredibly flashy demos we assumed by the September iPhone launch there would be some very concrete releases they'd be saying okay when you buy your phone you should buy it because it can do these incredible things for you and instead the things that they are releasing are so incredibly incremental around the improvements to Siri around Apple intelligence there simple things that Siri will now be able to supposedly query Apple apps only it's still not even going to integrate with any third-party app in any meaningful way and we've tested this kind of thing even using Apple Mail with the Apple iOS 18 beta it doesn't work and then visual search on photos interesting sure Google photos already does it very well so the idea like and this is again where you can search very specific things being able to search around time things that are within photo should work and Apple has already had computer vision based search in some capacity for a long time as well so so the two things that will actually be shipped are probably not going to be very good if and they won't be great and the things that we've been Pro been promised around agentic AI running across various apps and taking actions and being able to use Siri in a meaningful way on par with Chachi BT Audio or Chachi BT voice none of that is coming anytime soon right and so let me just take apple side here go for arent don't we need to allow the company a little bit of time so developers can familiarize themselves with this technology and start building for it as opposed to like have it work you know you know across the board from the beginning isn't that a bit unrealistic to expect okay so when I think about the original phone launch and then the App Store coming and I remember there was there was this do you remember the beer app I always yes I do but talk about I always think about it it was this app that was incredibly silly and ridiculous and so much fun it was an app that leveraged the original iPhone's accelerometer so when you turned it and you made it look like you're drinking and listeners cannot see me doing this but I'm acting like I'm currently drinking and uh it would look like a beer kind of dissipating and as though you were drinking and again it was ridiculous it was silly it showed the power of the accelerometer within the iPhone but more importantly it got you used to the App Store and finding things on the App Store they did not promise the App Store would turn into this incredibly robust thing that would change the way we interact with our phones uh 5 years from there they said oh yeah you can download some fun apps tomorrow and that's what we were promised so apple does not have this history until very recently of promises of where things will be in a few years they'll tell you what you can do today the original promise with the iPhone was it just works pinch to zoom on the New York Times the web is just the web on your phone and these are things that are actually shipped so I think this idea that the idea of giving time to developers yes is correct and they should be reaching out to Developers and they should be developing these things before going all in to try to boost their stock price in the short term as you can tell I'm not very happy so you think that most of this big broad Vision setting for AI for Apple has just been a stock market move don't they need to inspire people to want to build with this technology I I mean maybe this maybe I'm so worked up because this falls into a larger issue around generative AI that we've dis discussed extensively it's the idea that when the promises are made so grandly the truff of disillusionment is around the corner people are going to get disillusioned it's it's going to lead to a potential like I mean it'll make the potential realization of those promises so much more difficult because the first time your Siri does not work and find your flight info which is the most basic query imaginable or Ser is nowhere on par or apple intelligence with other consumer products that are out there I think that's a problem I was actually thinking of like even all the things that they have announced are down the road some large scale consumer app is already doing and doing it very well and yes Apple's Apple's very good at packaging things into their ecosystem to work well but usually they don't heavily advertise those things again before they're actually ready for use right and what one of the interesting things here was that the entire event was called it's glow time and that is the new uh UI that you'll have with Siri where you say you you summon Siri and your phone uh screen starts to like wobble and glow and it's pretty cool and here's like the thing to me is you're talking we talk about what Apple intelligence is and it's sort of this umbrella term for like all these AI features that it's going to be on the iPhone and you're totally right that everything outside of Siri is not really a needle mover so it's going to summarize notifications I have that on my phone today it's not that cool it's G to make a it's going to allow you create to create Emojis with natural language that's interesting but again it's a feature and that's also delayed it's going to allow you to create images with your phone like you mentioned that's something that you can do with dolly or a number of other image generators today yes it's Apple so it be available to so many more people but um it's not unique to Apple and then the visual intelligence which they release which we can talk about a little bit more in a bit where you point your phone and and you know you ask what it is like that's Google Lens so the big innovation here really will be the voice controls for your phone which is Siri and we know that's delayed right that's not going to come until 2025 and by the way like again Hardware event I'm going to talk about it again Hardware event named after a software product and the software product doesn't even come till next year and so yes a lot of the things that apple is talking about with Siri are pretty cool if it's able to pull it off but here's the thing and I think this is kind of going to your why you're depressed this week is that does Apple have the track record to let us think that it's going to be able to pull off Siri I don't think so there's nothing that Apple has done to this point to show us that it can upgrade Siri in a meaningful way yes there's new technology we acknowledge that that should be able to improve it but there have been incremental points of new technology being introduced throughout siries entire lifetime and has there been a moment at all where Apple has shown yep we've been able to integrate that effectively I would answer no yeah I mean I think that's exactly my biggest worry that I say this as someone with homepods around my home and an iPhone and a Macbook and airpods and whatever else no Vision Pro though but pretty much everything else yeah with the program man and I uh I I want them to do this I really do but the Amazon Ekko and Alexa have been far far far superior for years so they've had the opportunity to at least bring Siri to being Market level and they haven't so the idea that they were going to make this dramatic Leap Forward it was difficult but honestly with the ad of llms I figured if there was ever a time that they would be able to do this you have this new technology that is specifically designed to revolutionize the problem that Siri is dealing with in terms of processing information and giving you answers using natural language I mean it's literally what Siri was meant to do so this could be that moment but again the way they're rolling this out really worries me for the company because doing this stuff is hard doing this stuff is there's you're going to I mean Google told us to eat rocks everyone's going to have kind of problems along the way which is fine but a company like apple is not something like the like you know generate an image like dolly or mid Journey or whatever else you know they're going to have problems at some point so the longer they wait to release it it will never be perfect and this makes me think that they're just going to have to wait and wait and wait and either it'll get more and more delayed or it will be a half-baked feature that they've oversold so much that the average user which is what Apple's promise is is bring these Technologies to the average user will just be disillusioned or just think this is stupid and a waste of time and just so people don't get the uh feeling that we're being extra harsh on Apple John Gruber a famous Apple Watcher who's been on the show great interview with him if you want to go check it out he's fascinating uh fascinating perspectives on the company on threads yesterday he posted the obvious truth Tru is that we all including Apple Miss Steve Jobs I mean I but they've done things even the Vision Pro for its potential flaws they they swung they took a chance and I I respected that here is a completely like this is fun technology this is exciting what they're selling me at what they were selling on Monday it's not even fun even on the hardware side I mean I I'll admit I was like it's so incremental even I thought maybe a new the airp airpods Pro 2 would have the health sensors and the hearing aid thing is cool and I mean but I thought something big something interesting on the hardware side there was absolutely nothing yes there's like a haptic button to take uh photos instead of a physical button great I'm sure that's cool I'm sure I will like it at some point and it would be interesting but even on the hardware side it just did not seem fun or exciting to me it seemed like a really really half-hearted attempt it putting on an event that was just not even worth having an event it could have been a press release so you're not going Gaga over the new camera button on the iPhone 16 I'm not do you know what I I'll admit and we are a nuanced show here the studio quality mics on the iPhone that was that was as as a podcaster along with you I was like like okay if this means that the iPhone can actually work on at the same level as the shore mv7 sitting in front of me that's kind of interesting that's cool so I'll give a give a little bit of a shout out there it's I'm not going to upgrade for it anytime soon I have the iPhone 15 Pro Max but it was that was the only interesting Hardware announcement for me right so I'm curious what you think this means now for Apple's product sales so the iPhone makes more than 50% of Apple's total sales I think it's 52% uh this year the iPhone is accounting for 68% of total product sales right so the iPhone is 52% of all sales 68% of Apple product sales and we're in a moment where in the first three quarters of this year Apple product sales have declined from the year before right they had that run of five of six uh quarters where they've had they had Revenue contraction and the iPhone is the thing they count on and a lot of analysts were saying listen this is going to be the super cycle for Apple iPhone 16 Apple intelligence and they're not going to have that so are we basically looking at another year of like kind of Bleak Hardware performance for Apple I think we are I think this is actually I mean this is really again as a longtime Apple fan this this pains me to go have to go through this again this is like apple therapy right now but the hardware Revenue I mean iPhone was already Contracting as you said Services Revenue it was up 9% last quarter that's one of the only growth areas in the company and the worst part of this is a world where if no one is upgrading their iPhone which I do not think this creates a compelling case in any way and they're not even saying it is because if you're telling me that it's going to be nine months to a year from now before I can create generative emoji or in context Siri which I think is still the most important part of this whole roll out then why would you buy the iPhone 16 either you wait maybe you're waiting for the 17 anyway but it the Apple has been facing this problem for the last few years that the iPhone up I used to upgrade every year I don't every three years or so every year from like years one through seven every year most people I know people are and it's good that people are running four-year-old 5-year-old iPhones and they're working still um but that idea that there's something so new and exciting that you need to upgrade is completely gone and I think another thing is in the antitrust environment the way apple and I say this uncomfortably but apple is I mean Tim Cook and apple are quietly one of the most aggressive monopolists in terms of how they build ecosystem and juice that Services revenue and that kind of growth I think will stall out I think we're going to start to see some kind of pressure on bundling and the way they approach just pushing every type of product in the way they do with auto renewals um so I think and we've already seen that in the EU significantly so I do think that they're going to be hit on both sides right now yeah and we're going to go into Services a little bit deeper in the second half of this show but I want to keep harping on this like try my my main goal in this episode is to sort of we both had like pretty negative reaction to this and I want to get it all out there let us express our feelings but also see if we're overreacting here and by that I'm the question I have is are are we premature like we know the 16 is not going to do as well I mean the 16 is not going to be the Super Cycle that's based off of Apple intelligence that so many people hoped but do you think and this is what Mark Gman from Bloomberg thinks that within a year you get the you get apple intelligence working developers become familiar with it and then Series starts to work better this is obviously a priority for Apple when Apple makes something a priority it tends to go well is this just kind of like us being like so greedy we want it all or impatient we want it all to happen so you know immediately but with a product like this that's AI based that's going to take a totally new way of building applications or building or developers building their services into this new AI um is it just that you know it might look Bleak right now but give it a year and then it achieves its promise no okay well no no here here's why here's why it's they have set the road map a year ago I mean they've announced it publicly four months ago and actually I think this is the most dangerous part for Apple it's the things that they have outlined in the road map are things that were interesting in generative AI six months ago again generative Emoji uh uh agentic AI was all the hype and I still think that's probably the most important thing for Siri but a year from now we have no idea what other consumer facing generative AI will be doing if you think about the last year and a half to two the amount of advancement is incredible so so what is cool like generating songs from scratch did not exist a year from ago 6 months ago you could do it like still waiting when mid journey and dollar and all these other companies are just pushing image creation so fast and so far what that even looks like a year from now we have no idea and only then will Apple be releasing these features and I don't think they're going to create some magic unless they create some they're the ones pushing some magic new format which they never really do I think they're going to be behind the curve but they're the ones that have the phone right and if you think that the future of AI is going to be a personalized assistant that knows your context Knows What You Do knows who you communicate with knows who your family is can accomplish goals on your behalf the argument would be this all happens through the phone nobody is in a better position than the hardware makers than the phone makers to take all that information and make it into something that makes your life easier so why not it's a it's a wonderful pitch it is a wonderful pitch I actually this is where I genuinely would be curious and there's been actually there hasn't really been much reporting on kind of the organizational side of what Apple intelligence looks like or what Apple's generative AI looks like I mean there are the stories when they shut down the car project that a lot of people moved over to generative AI but I think this is a really interesting innovators dilemma type of organizational question of are they is can they actually pull this off do they have the right Talent the right chops the right like just overall teams to make this happen and I they've certainly not shown that they do as of yet they have the opportunity I agree it's the perfect simplest pitch in the world that's why they well that's why in June I was excited pit you all heard me I was I was smiling I was happy I was excited and and now it's we're heading into fall and things look Bleak confidence Siri here we come I remember I was listening I was uh oh I dreamed I dreamed so here's a question is Apple in a in a worse position than Google right remember we had Google we had this whole discussion about Google about the The innovator's Dilemma for them you brought up innovator's dilemma that Google didn't want to displace its tempoo links with AI because people won't click the links they won't get paid if people don't click the links but remember Apple makes 30% of all app store sales and is AI potentially something that displaces some apps and apple makes billions of dollars from Google from search and again like if they make the default jet GPT that revenue is going to be more difficult to come by so I want to talk about some of these issues The innovator's Dilemma that Apple might have whether Apple really wants Apple intelligence to succeed and then again Hardware event called glow time named after Siri Services growing product Revenue shrinking what is Apple that's coming up right after this and we're back here on big technology podcast it's really a Friday Edition on Wednesday but I'm thrilled to be talking about big story what's going on with apple and apple uh intelligence here with Ronan Roy of margins so ranan let's just go back to this question of what happens to Apple's Appy system if Apple intelligence works and I was speaking about this with someone yesterday you it's just like with apple it's making 30% off of all of these apps and if Apple intelligence works the way that it's supposed to work do we then just not need you know many of the apps because Apple's able to accomplish these things I mean you go to like the canonical example of like book me a flight like do you still need a kayak or something like that so is it possible that apple is if this works the way that Apple wants that it might actually end up cannibalizing some of its services Revenue throw in the Google by the way the Google search deal like if people end up using chat gbt instead of Google isn't that bad for Apple what do you think oh this is interesting I like that Alex left me hanging before the commercial break with the most existential what is Apple that's kind we're talking about that you're okay I think you're on to something here so I think it was last night there was uh the the Clara CEO who has been on this show and I you pressed him on trying to defend and I thought he did a reasonable job of Defending of he's legit yeah yeah I as again someone who's done a lot of work with generative AI for a context Clara in the past said I think they cut like 50% of their time to Mark or ability to create marketing content some major reduction in costs and time in creating marketing content with generative AI but yesterday and on this show he admitted to you that part of the reason he made a big deal about it rather than keeping it a competitive secret was for the attention and last night for the attention he made a big announcement saying that they're going to be cutting their entire Salesforce and workday budgets because they've built in-house processes that are simpler faster using AI generative AI good oldfashioned databases and coding um but they're able to do this the reason I bring that up is that is interesting to me that if this works what does that that eliminates a lot of apps that eliminates ton apps could become simple actions they can and we talked about this before that actually my hope is Apple shortcuts become kind of the skeleton and the infrastructure behind all of the goodness of what could happen with Siri the idea that like an app is just a couple of actions that go through Siri but then what does that mean for Revenue what are you actually paying like the idea that you're going to an app opening it using it and needing to pay some amount of money starts to become less and less of use cases and I I actually think this is kind of interesting like what does that do to the app ecosystem I think it changes the nature of what is an app at the minimum right so then I mean in terms of maybe new monetization models are created but I think that actually could be a threat that is not talked about very often I'll just give you one example that I saw in the presentation with the visual intelligence thing where you point the camera so someone points the camera at a restaurant and asks for some more information about the restaurant and it pulls up the rating of the restaurant from Open Table okay well on my phone you know I might be using open table but I also might be using Yelp I also might be using Google Maps to see like how these restaurants are R are rated and now with visual intelligence Apple intelligence those decisions are made for you and if this takes off then yeah it becomes this point where the app developers are going to start to see that and as again this is always a threat with big Tech they ingest so much of the experience that the app developers are effectively R&D for the eventual big Tech products I'm sure fol I'm sure the folks at Yelp will be ecstatic about this um I think there's a reason why Yelp is like the most uh anti big Tech or like antich antistress company it's because they realize how vulnerable they are to this type of stuff sorry go ahead yeah yeah no no I agree Yelp for a long time has been one of the most vocal opponents of Google in terms of Google basically initially ingesting as you said Yelp data re presenting it without directing people to the Yelp site and then as they build reviews on Google Maps itself and then prioritize those in Search and map so Yelp is definitely kind of the the most they're the most vocal he said but this is going to you're right this could happen more and more with apple but in a way with apple because of the App Store Revenue it's not just clean for them to create these new user experiences because they're not getting any additional money for every visual intelligence search maybe there's some kind of affiliate model that's built off the click through to open table I don't know like a search model but otherwise they're basically eliminating apps or the need for apps to enhance their their products and they're not going to get that 30% cut anymore yeah so maybe Apple doesn't fully understand what it's doing here I mean of course they they are smart they must understand uh maybe that's the reason why this stuff is slowing down I don't know we certainly know within Google they weren't Harding to that's tinf foily that's yeah maybe that's too conspiratorial actually no no I mean I guess that is you're going yeah go ahead that is okay I I said that was tin foily but that is actually worse no no no but that that is the definition of the innovator's Dilemma that companies don't properly invest and push things that will disrupt their existing business model so okay I take it back that's actually like Harvard Business School Professor uh as opposed toacy couple levels here from Alex Jones to Harvard Professor solid thank you Alex to Clayton Christensen upgrade it's a good one I feel like few have made that jump so it's really a great so quickly in just the space of one sentence so but I think we should get to like the bigger issue here which is sort of the existential question that I asked about Apple uh to begin with which again like okay so German has has some good reporting on what's coming next on the hardware front for apple and that's a much thinner iPhone somewhere down the line and potentially an iPhone that folds or an iPad that folds really is the thing that they're prioritizing so I'm not going to suggest that Apple has given up on the hardware front it hasn't and it just released the Vision Pro new hardware device so it's like clearly working to build more Hardware uh devices but like I mentioned and like you mentioned all the growth or most of the much of the growth is coming from services at this point in fact yeah you think over the per first three quarters all the growth for Apple came from Services compared to products Services now makes up 24% of Apple's Revenue compared to 21% of Apple's Revenue last year and as product Revenue has gone down and services Revenue has gone up the margins for apple have gone up so this is behind a lot of people saying you should value apple as a tech company not a hardware company which has been beyond Behind Some of its growth in the stock market the thing is they're they're also uh shipping products more on a software schedule right was with their Hardware remember Hardware you you it's it's somewhat constrained you build up the new iOS you release the new uh phone with all the bells and whistles and it's this huge Splash everyone knows all the new stuff that's going to be in it and you do it once a year with software you you roll this stuff out gradually and that's what it's doing with apple intelligence so I just am curious I'm going to and by the way I'm writing about this in big technology so I'm actually going to give away the newsletter in this week's podcast but whatever I don't mind do do um does Apple now transition from a company that's sort of have the hardware DNA first to one that has the software DNA leading what do you think I think they need they they need to it sounds like I mean they're they're kind of pushing themselves in that direction but they have never been that company anyone who has used Apple proprietary software for years again the the kind of more like the operating system level clearly they're amazing at but the the app side of it I mean have you used Pages or numbers in a long time reason yeah exactly like even I mean notes is a good product but it's just it's almost by default like every single product that they create every every piece of software is either by default or more and more just kind of BU like autocharge subscription which I think is such a large part of their software Services business model that I don't even understand I get I have any number of emails coming in saying you have been charged for Apple Care for some I mean I'm Apple TV subscriber I'm a whatever else like I think they don't it's people aren't excited around using Apple software so if they move in that direction I think that is a little worrying for them like their software success has been on account of the hardware yeah no I I think it's risky but it's also something that they maybe they have no choice over because like you talked about it used to be you would upgrade your your iPhone let's say every 18 months right or maybe every two years and now people are holding them I think I heard this week an average of 42 months so three and a half years and when that happens you're going to have your product sales go down you're still delivering a quality product but you need something else and that's kind of like OB obviously Services has been growing but now Apple intelligence is coming in and it's going to basically they're they're positioning it as the leader of this and now Apple intelligence is free but let's be honest it's a Services product if you love searching your photos with natural language then you're going to put all your photos in Apple's photos app and when all your photos are in there you pay them got pay the terabytes exactly you pay them more storage fees so this is this is I think again part of their transformation towards software company first versus hardware company first and then the the real thing is man that's risky but they may not have a choice it's I don't think they should be making that bet if that is the bet that they're consciously making maybe it's kind of happening but I actually think Apple's like strongest uh competitive positioning from the hardware side is okay maybe you're not getting the iPhone every year but when you're locked into the ecosystem like I am myself and that's why I'm so passionate about this there's going to be whether it's the new airpods or whether it's a new watch or whether it's a new iPad or whether it's a new Macbook or whether it's a new iPhone one of these products within an ecosystem will be interesting and will make you want to buy it and pro probably multiple ones every within a 12-month period so getting people locked into the like delivering exciting new hardware among one of the products within their sphere is still a viable way of pushing hardware and then again The Vision Pro was supposed to be the Breakthrough of what is the next big product it's certainly not there yet but I think like I still think moving to software first they are never going to be that company and maybe it's good it's competition it's uh like an actual sign of the market is working and we're moving towards a world where maybe there's going to exciting new hardware and not the Humane pin and whatever else could you see a world where Apple Services Revenue surpasses iPhone Revenue yeah yeah I think it's G to happen I I mean after the after the announcement of this 16 I think uh I think it's probably going to be sooner rather than later but yeah I mean that would be that would be very interesting and kind of existential for the company so okay um just a word on the Vision Pro I didn't think I saw I didn't think the vision was mentioned at all was it mentioned in the event it's so sad it's so sad what does that tell us I mean the people I know who bought it have stopped talking about it it's still when I've tried it a number of times one of the coolest pieces of Technology I've tried in the last five years maybe um but it it clearly is not Landing there's no nothing being developed for it I was actually thinking one thing though that like did you see this is separate from Apple but still connected uh there are these bars out in Dallas in La where they have kind of like you're like an immersive IMAX type of experience to watch sports like there the I saw some oh you got it for there're these like they're these viral tweets going around like where it starts it looks like you're in the end zone for the game and then it pans around and people are just sitting at tables and eating and drinking and cheering and like it was just a reminder that like immersive Sports should be such a breakthrough like we we've all been told you can sit Courtside and watch games in a completely new way why hasn't it happened yet and like there's still so much opportunity why is everyone on a a plane not wearing the Vision Pro and watching like movies on their small screen I think uh there's still so potential for this but it's it's I'm a little sad by it not as sad about Siri but still a little bit sad still one of the coolest things I've ever seen in technology was a 3D television where I saw a football like being thrown through the air on a football field and just watch the spiral like kind of up close from a camera this was a long time did you have the yeah I remember that actually one of the TVs my parents bought probably in the two like mid 2000s it came with glasses and we did it once or twice and then just they eventually all just got discontinued so yeah yeah yeah yeah um my Galaxy brain take on virtual reality is that we will eventually move from trying to put glasses on our heads to just implanting it into our brains and that's what VR and AR are going to be is it then augmented or is it then your reality mean that is a great question I would say yeah I don't know it's both it's just star it's just star I'm in the middle of listening to Lex Friedman's like 9-h Hour podcast with Elon Musk and the entire nurlink staff I I want you to go through and complete it and I think that will be an endurance test for the ages and uh I think that will be incredible it's it's yeah it's a it's definitely an intense Endeavor okay last thing for you and then then we'll head out so Apple uh big Vision Pro uh demo kind of little bit of a disappointment in reality or a big disappointment in reality Big Apple intelligence demo one year later to the date at WWDC and now kind of another wave of disappointment how many strikes does Apple get if you know before people start to sound the alarm on this company I think this is the problem this is why did I think Monday was a very big problem for them it's they have a they're going to have plenty of Goodwill with people like myself included based on the amount of lockin they have ecosystem lockin from the amount of gadgets I have and the amount of like I'm not going to CH you know like completely change my entire ecosystem to Android or other devices anytime soon but the moment they stop being fun and exciting and kind of boring I actually think that's the biggest threat to them and the big the most important takeaway for me for Monday was it really was not fun and exciting like there there was nothing there was nothing that had me saying oh wow this is cool I can't wait to use this and when they're running around saying generative Emoji like it's just it's it's cringeworthy it's cringe the jenz says no iPhone 16 for you I mean not certainly not anytime soon again I I'm I am sitting on iPhone 15 Pro Max like and I got it a while uh when it came out and absolutely no reason until you tell me the studio quality mics are actually as good as uh Shore and then it's not going to be me I got I have the 15 Pro and I'm not switching I'm keeping this yeah all right everybody thanks so much for listening thank you Ronan great speaking with you are you happy you got this out off your chest and I'm very glad we did this on a Wednesday so I didn't have to sit with it all week and now I'm cleansed are you feeling better I'm feeling better okay great that's what we're here for thanks everybody for listening and we'll see you next time on big technology podcast